D&D 5E Optimizing a BladeSinger

[zarzak]

I'm making a bladesinger and it looks really fun to play, DM has ruled can be any race but i want to stay true and have chosen Eladrin, I like the idea for flavour + misty step every short rest will get me out of trouble once i relize i shouldnt be with the tanks

i wanted to go strength dual wield (fighter 1 + feat) longsword and quaterstaff(arcane focus) and take warcaster.

BUT defenses take a huge hit , its nearly not worth it i like the idea though.

as cantrips I would like to take Minor illusion for flavour and GFB (cause its sweet) what is the general recommendation, take fighter 2 levels? Game starts on nov 12 so I'm piecing together the char for then

Like you said - going strength is 'cool' but not really worth it.

I'd do 1 fighter level at level 12, so as not to delay casting too much. I'd probably dual wield (personally), but the +2 damage for one-handing is good too. Mariner is also good; +1 defense and more movement modes

 

[FormerlyHemlock]

The racial restriction is pretty much a DM call (so says the book), so if your DM allows it a variant human starting as a figher might be fun - for dual wielding.

If you're starting as fighter, you get AC 21 from plate + shield + defense style, and you can use melee controls like Greenflame Blade and Sword Burst to deal damage... At that point you might as well skip Bladesinger and take a complementary specialty like Necromancer or Abjuror instead. You don't get the Bladesinger's extra movement or extra melee attack or Song of Defense, but you probably don't even care, because your own subclass features are better.

AC is the main benefit of Bladesinging but for a Fighter it's redundant until high level, 12th or so.

 

[zarzak]

If you're starting as fighter, you get AC 21 from plate + shield + defense style, and you can use melee controls like Greenflame Blade and Sword Burst to deal damage... At that point you might as well skip Bladesinger and take a complementary specialty like Necromancer or Abjuror instead. You don't get the Bladesinger's extra movement or extra melee attack or Song of Defense, but you probably don't even care, because your own subclass features are better.

AC is the main benefit of Bladesinging but for a Fighter it's redundant until high level, 12th or so.

Thats not really a bladesinger build then, is it?

The idea is you'd take 1 level of fighter for the following:
CON save proficiency
More starting HP
Dual wielder style

Then 18 levels of wizard, and you can top it off with another fighter level somewhere near the end if you really want.

 

[ShogunAssassin]

I like the idea of taking a fighter level for dual wielding (once you get warcaster) but is first worth it ?

You lose wis and int saves and when bladesinging you gain a nice bonus (int mod) to your con saves also once you have warcaster you gain advantage on the saves

why not take it once you have a good collection of spells take it later?

 

[aarduini]

I'm a lover of Gish builds. I've been waiting for the Bladesinger for a long time. I currently have a level Fighter 8/Wizard 5 who just did the final battle in Rise of Tiamat. I also have a fighter 1/level 7 Wizard who went through Elemental Evil. Both have different play styles. Both builds aren't afraid to get into the front line, but one is better at taking and DPS while the other has more options for party buffs and area attacks. The Bladesinger will hopefully have both. As a full caster he will be much more effective at higher levels with spells like Force Cage, Simulacrum and Contingency. At all levels he can work as a back up tank and still be the party's primary wizard. I personally believe that toughness and CON saves are a must. When you are fighting an Ancient dragon and he drops a breath attack that does 91 HP, those petty wizard HPs are going to help much. Same thing with a Meteor Swarm or Finger of Death. If you don't want one level of fighter for the Con save then War Caster is a must. The INT ability modifier addition won't always be enough.

That's my opinion

 

[ShogunAssassin]

thats great i agree, im building my bladesinger from level 1 and wont know if he gets to 20! but I think im going to go for straight 20 wiz levels taking 2 feats , warcaster and resilient (dex) as I have a uneven dex score so starting with spells like:

Absorb elements
Mage armor (until/if I get magic studded leather)
& Shield For defenses &

4th taking Warcaster (possibly going dual wield)
8th +2 int
12th +2 dex
16th Resilient (dex)
19th +2 int

Or something, any help or any recommend spells for the first 5 levels?

 

[zarzak]

I like the idea of taking a fighter level for dual wielding (once you get warcaster) but is first worth it ?

You lose wis and int saves and when bladesinging you gain a nice bonus (int mod) to your con saves also once you have warcaster you gain advantage on the saves

why not take it once you have a good collection of spells take it later?

INT saves won't really be missed. WIS save is definitely good to have, but I'd value a higher CON save over it. As a bladesinger you're more dependent on self-buffs than an EK, so more CON save is never a bad thing.

I'm a lover of Gish builds. I've been waiting for the Bladesinger for a long time. I currently have a level Fighter 8/Wizard 5 who just did the final battle in Rise of Tiamat. I also have a fighter 1/level 7 Wizard who went through Elemental Evil. Both have different play styles. Both builds aren't afraid to get into the front line, but one is better at taking and DPS while the other has more options for party buffs and area attacks. The Bladesinger will hopefully have both. As a full caster he will be much more effective at higher levels with spells like Force Cage, Simulacrum and Contingency. At all levels he can work as a back up tank and still be the party's primary wizard. I personally believe that toughness and CON saves are a must. When you are fighting an Ancient dragon and he drops a breath attack that does 91 HP, those petty wizard HPs are going to help much. Same thing with a Meteor Swarm or Finger of Death. If you don't want one level of fighter for the Con save then War Caster is a must. The INT ability modifier addition won't always be enough.

That's my opinion

The problem with that is you don't have enough feat slots for War Caster and Toughness. You need to max out your INT, thats not really debatable. You also really need to max out your DEX (+2 DEX twice, or +2 DEX and Resilient (DEX), dependent on starting stats); its pretty central to your defenses and your offense. That leaves 1 open slot if you're an elf (two if you can manage human). Warcaster is necessary if dual wielding. Otherwise, even +2 CON is probably better than Toughness.

 

[ShogunAssassin]

INT saves won't really be missed. WIS save is definitely good to have, but I'd value a higher CON save over it. As a bladesinger you're more dependent on self-buffs than an EK, so more CON save is never a bad thing..

Good points but is the con save & dual wielding + extra hp worth losing the extra 7th level spell slot and signature spell(even though this isnt that good)? Im really debating taking a fighter level is why i ask

 

[zarzak]

Good points but is the con save & dual wielding + extra hp worth losing the extra 7th level spell slot and signature spell(even though this isnt that good)? Im really debating taking a fighter level is why i ask

Signature Spell is blah, and doesn't come online until 20th level. The 7th levels slot is useful, but that also comes online much later. My take is that if you're starting at an earlier level I'd much prefer to 'start' with the fighter benefits, as I feel they'd be worth the delayed spell progression. But I think that it really comes down to the playstyle.

If you're starting at 20th then, yeah, its definitely worth it (in my opinion).

 

[aarduini]

I think that one level of fighter is extremely beneficial with very little drawback. You get CON Save, A fighting Style and Second Wind. The drawback is your spells come one level later; however, you only lose one spell slot. You will benefit throughout the whole carrier of the character from the fighter level and only during one level for the spell slot, and its iffy if you will even reach that level.

Also, another question is whether maxing out at 18 rather than 20 is really that important. That's two points of damage and 2 points of AC which will already be very high. If you Max out at 18 you can have the following feat tree

4th - Two weapon fighting
8th - War Caster
12th - Toughness or Int if you feel Toughness is not needed. You can use spells like False Life to substitute for HP
16th - Int
19th - Dex