Harassment in gaming

[Hussar]

Dunno. Sound pretty darn plausible to me.

But, I'm wondering. Why would you think that this is not an issue that should be discussed on a gaming forum? The behaviour of gamers is something that's been discussed at length. Whether it's "that disruptive guy at my table" or lengthy Agony Aunt style threads talking about how the group imploded under the weight of some incredibly asinine behaviour. Why shouldn't this issue be raised?

I'll admit, I don't think I've seen this. But, then, I almost never played at public forums and I've spent the last 15 years pretty much exclusively gaming online via VTT. But, even then, I've seen some pretty uncomfortable behaviour. Heck, I remember being cyber stalked by a former player who I had to give the boot to. He harassed me for months, all via private mail on the forum we were using and through the creation of alt accounts to threadcrap our game threads. So, I can certainly see this sort of thing happening.

Heck, I used to be a regular on an old forum called PlanetADnD. Great forum for a while until one of the mods decided he had a serious hate on for me and endlessly harassed me until I left the forum. And I was hardly the first user to get treated like that. Was the main reason I can to En World because the mods here are pretty even handed.

So the idea that these same sorts of people might harass women in the hobby isn't much of a stretch.

 

[Morrus]

I didn't call her a liar! I said I think the events in the ++++ sections are fictional.

Well that's a distinction which defeats my little brain.

 

[MechaPilot]

I didn't call her a liar! I said I think the events in the ++++ sections are fictional. I don't know to what extent the author intended for people to realize this or not. I say this for three reasons:
a) they're completely implausible
b) they're inserted into the article without any preamble or clarification about their veracity
c) the author is a fanfic writer and they read like fanfic

They don't read as fiction to me. They read as experiences to me, hence the author's use of "I am. . ." in most of those sections. That the author also writes fanfiction is irrelevant to whether the experiences in those sections are real. If she is a writer, fanfic or otherwise, she has likely found her literary "voice," which will impart similarities of style into everything that she writes. Also, the things related in the ++++ sections are given some preamble: each item in the ++++ sections relate to the point(s) made in the preceding paragraph(s). It's similar in use to citing sources in other forms of writing, only the author is citing personal experiences.

 

[MechaPilot]

They don't read as fiction to me. They read as experiences to me, hence the author's use of "I am. . ." in most of those sections. That the author also writes fanfiction is irrelevant to whether the experiences in those sections are real. If she is a writer, fanfic or otherwise, she has likely found her literary "voice," which will impart similarities of style into everything that she writes. Also, the things related in the ++++ sections are given some preamble: each item in the ++++ sections relate to the point(s) made in the preceding paragraph(s). It's similar in use to citing sources in other forms of writing, only the author is citing personal experiences.

Edit: And, even if they were fiction (which I don't believe that they are), that doesn't matter. A lot of the good works of science fiction frequently exist to get people to think about and discuss the questions raised therein.

 

[Umbran]

a) they're completely implausible

Upon what do you base that assessment? You are, perhaps, an expert on crimes against women that you can verify that such things don't happen?

If your answer begins, "No, but...," I suggest you be very careful about what comes after that but. The credibility of the rest of what you say depends on it.

I'll drop a line to a friend of mine, who is on staff at a major sci fi convention. I'll see if she can give me the number of harrassment reports the con got last year. Maybe that number will make it seem more plausible.

b) they're inserted into the article without any preamble or clarification about their veracity

The work surrounding it is not fiction. So, in the absence of clarification, you have two options:

1) She stays non-fiction throughout.
2) She strays back and forth between fiction and non-fiction without warning or explanation.

Occam's Razor applies.

c) the author is a fanfic writer and they read like fanfic

You are a gamer. So, if you report to me an event in which you got mugged, should I take it that is actually just a gaming war story, that it didn't really happen?

Thank you, Libramarian, for presenting a pretty solid example of the uphill climb women have in reporting harassment and assault. Disbelief. Claims she's making things up.

 

[Libramarian]

But, I'm wondering. Why would you think that this is not an issue that should be discussed on a gaming forum?

I said I don't think it needs to be discussed. OP said "I don't have a solution, but I think we have to talk about this". I was disagreeing with that. I don't think we have to talk about it. I think white male gamers are less intimidating to women and POC than typical western white men, and this forum in particular is quite civil and inclusive for a hobby community. The concrete problem is anonymous hate mail and death threats sent to feminist critics; we're not likely to come up with a solution to that here.

Well that's a distinction which defeats my little brain.

Lying involves an intent to deceive. I'm hesitant to call her a liar because I don't know what her intent was. When things like this blow up and go viral people tend to treat them like an op-ed in the NYT, when it's just a post on someone's personal blog. She should write whatever she likes on her blog.

Actually the claim she does have to substantiate is that Wyrd Miniatures staff members have been threatening her. I've never heard of them nor the game Malifaux, but that's a serious accusation. She should be able to prove that easily so I hope justice is swiftly achieved.

They don't read as fiction to me.

Perhaps they're inspired by real events, but I thought the dialogue in the story about the aboriginal woman was especially preposterous.

 

[Obryn]

I said I don't think it needs to be discussed. OP said "I don't have a solution, but I think we have to talk about this". I was disagreeing with that. I don't think we have to talk about it. I think white male gamers are less intimidating to women and POC than typical western white men, and this forum in particular is quite civil and inclusive for a hobby community. The concrete problem is anonymous hate mail and death threats sent to feminist critics; we're not likely to come up with a solution to that here.

I really don't get what you're trying to say here?

Lying involves an intent to deceive. I'm hesitant to call her a liar because I don't know what her intent was. When things like this blow up and go viral people tend to treat them like an op-ed in the NYT, when it's just a post on someone's personal blog. She should write whatever she likes on her blog.

Actually the claim she does have to substantiate is that Wyrd Miniatures staff members have been threatening her. I've never heard of them nor the game Malifaux, but that's a serious accusation. She should be able to prove that easily so I hope justice is swiftly achieved.

Perhaps they're inspired by real events, but I thought the dialogue in the story about the aboriginal woman was especially preposterous.

It's weird that a response to a post in part about how reports of abuse and harassment in the gaming community aren't taken seriously, is met with a response that amounts to not taking her seriously.

Would an article validating what she's saying about her employment experience and court case help us move past this little bit where you're doubting her integrity?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Perhaps they're inspired by real events, but I thought the dialogue in the story about the aboriginal woman was especially preposterous.

This?

++++
It is 2009 and an aboriginal woman is looking at the metal miniatures on the wall. My co-worker helps her as I stock the display shelves.

“Do you have any models that look like me?” the woman asks.

“We only have normal models,” my co-worker titters, “I can order you the noble savage.”

The woman leaves. We never see her again.

Dude, I've been on the woman's side of that conversation more than once, occasionally nastier.

Now, in my case, I knew that the salespersons in question were not mocking me because I knew some of them socially outside of the store, and the others were minorities themselves. IOW, I knew some were kidding, while some were being rueful.

That woman probably did not have either of those factors operating in her favor.

And here's the thing: sometimes it is easy to forget that a joke made between friends may not play well with strangers.

Was the salesperson being deliberately hurtful? Can't say. But she was still hurtful.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Would an article validating what she's saying about her employment experience and court case help us move past this little bit where you're doubting her integrity?

What a delusional little troll Tackaberry is. Acts as his own attorney, dredges up irrelevant trauma inflicted upon the person suing him, loses the case, and then complains the proceedings were unfair because he didn't have a lawyer.

I would LOVE to see an appelate-level judge look at his case and keep a straight face.

 

[SunGold]

I said I don't think it needs to be discussed.

That's fine; feel free to show yourself out of the thread.

This thread went on for five pages before you arrived, so clearly people are getting something out of it. If you aren't, there are many, many other threads you could go contribute to instead.