Harassment in gaming

[Maggan]

I feel that the post linked in the thread start is important. To me it is important to read accounts like this, regardless of tone.

Because I am not the target of the described behaviour, I need other people to explain to me what it looks like, what it feels like and what the consequences are. If strong language is involved, so be it. I need to learn more to make sure I don't inadvertantly enable the behaviour described.

Being more aware of this will not detract from my enjoyment of this hobby, and might enhance the enjoyment others get out if it. A win-win situation for me.

/Maggan

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Where do you think I was getting my metaphor from?

Just in case there were some unfamiliar with it.

 

[MechaPilot]

Thank you [MENTION=177]Umbran[/MENTION]

So... what can we do, as individual gamers? Well... I know this part:

1: don't be a creep/harasser/rapist

2: Try to let go of sexist ideas, and specifically the notion that RPGs is a "guy thing". When I was young I just assumed that RPGs were a guy thing, same way GI-JOEs were a guy things and dolls a girl thing. (And yes, GI-JOEs *are* little dolls...). There is absolutely no reason why women shouldn't be about 50% of pen and paper RPG gamers. None.

3: Listen to women. If a woman tells you "I feel this art is demeaning" don't argue with her. If you don't get it, ask her why (and TONE of voice is important here people). As a white guy, I don't get to decide if using the N word is offensive, and I don't get to decide if a piece of art is offensive to women. And if a woman tells you she's been harassed or worse, for the love of god do something.

4: If another guy does or says something creepy, call them out on it, EVEN if there are no women present. When a rapist makes a rape joke around other guys, he's gauging the audience.

But apart from that... I don't know?

I think you pretty much nailed it. "Don't do it yourself, be aware of when others do it, and don't tolerate when others do it" really just sums up my personal standards about harassment and other offensive behavior.

When I was younger, I had a friend who turned skinhead. The first time he tried to bring that rhetoric up while I was hanging out with him, I told him (and this is paraphrased), "Look. You can believe that stupid racist BS all you want, but if you bring it up around me again then we're through being friends. Now, are we going to keep playing D&D? Or do I need to call my dad to come pick me up?"

He never brought it up ever again. The friendship ultimately didn't last more than another year, but I like to think that while it did last hanging out with me gave him a way to associate with people who weren't actively engaged in hating others, possibly helping him doubt the stupid stupid things he had come to believe.

 

[was]

..When I read this article, I was absolutely shocked and appalled. I have been gaming for nearly 24 years and have never seen this sort of offensive behavior. IME, male gamers tend to be more timid in approaching women. I also game with women, both young and old(er), and have never heard of such sexual misconduct from them. Maybe it's a regional thing, the midwest being more conservative and such.

..If these criminal instances are not the product of an aspiring writer, then they need to be addressed immediately. It's outrageous that any authority would be so dismissive of such serious crimes. Especially in these litigious times and with the prevalence of social media. In my past work experiences, both civilian and military, just the accusation of such sexual misconduct was enough to destroy a career.

..IMO, no gamer should tolerate the harassment of a fellow gamer. We face enough abuse from outside the community to tolerate it from within.

 

[Umbran]

..When I read this article, I was absolutely shocked and appalled. I have been gaming for nearly 24 years and have never seen this sort of offensive behavior.

Don't be too sure. Look at the anecdote I gave above. Dozens of people present, and apparently *nobody noticed*. Part of the issue is that we tend to be blind to such an event, even when it happens right in front of us. And by "blind" we should include, "overlooked, or didn't pay attention" and "interpret events as being more innocent than they are".

I have a hard time believing that any authority would be so dismissive of such serious claims. Especially in such litigious times and with the prevalence of social media. In my past work experiences, both civilian and military, just the accusation of sexual misconduct was enough to destroy a career.

Yes. Now, note something again about my story. The woman in question didn't want to report it herself. I asked if I could report it for her, and she only agreed to it after some discussion. The reluctance is common.

Go look up how women are often treated when they do report such things - the dire consequences lead to pushback, blaming the victim, and so on. Women who report such treatment are often then treated very, very badly.

 

[was]

Part of the issue is that we tend to be blind to such an event, even when it happens right in front of us. And by "blind" we should include, "overlooked, or didn't pay attention" and "interpret events as being more innocent than they are".

..I think that you might have an even more pessimistic view of humanity than my own. Lack of attention is the only plausible argument that I could possibly accept as feasible. I don't think that any of the incidents described could be interpreted as 'innocent' nor would the obvious discomfort of the young woman allow any reasonable person to 'overlook' such a criminal event.

Yes. Now, note something again about my story. The woman in question didn't want to report it herself. I asked if I could report it for her, and she only agreed to it after some discussion. The reluctance is common.

Go look up how women are often treated when they do report such things - the dire consequences lead to pushback, blaming the victim, and so on. Women who report such treatment are often then treated very, very badly.

..I must concede that point. Not being familiar with the young woman in question, or with such crimes, I cannot reasonably argue that point. What I can say with confidence, is that the female gamers that I know would definitely report it. I also know that the male gamers I have played with would stop such behavior, 'when observed', and would back the ladies up if they made such a report.

 

[Gradine]

I feel that the post linked in the thread start is important. To me it is important to read accounts like this, regardless of tone.

Because I am not the target of the described behaviour, I need other people to explain to me what it looks like, what it feels like and what the consequences are. If strong language is involved, so be it. I need to learn more to make sure I don't inadvertantly enable the behaviour described.

Being more aware of this will not detract from my enjoyment of this hobby, and might enhance the enjoyment others get out if it. A win-win situation for me.

/Maggan

The emphasis above is my own, and probably the most important takeaway from articles such as these for people with a degree of privilege. There's a tendency, for example, for men to expect women to dominate any discussion about misogyny and harassment in any social setting. But as Umbran has been illustrating, there's a host of reasons why women would not feel safe playing the role of educators. For another example of this in action, see: the internet. Just all of it. In its entirety (okay, see Youtube, Twitter or Reddit if you feel you need a few places to start).

There's a reason why it's so important for men to educate themselves (and other men!) about these issues, because harassment does not end until men stop harassing. That means seeking out, reading and discussing articles such as these. It means speaking out against misogynist behaviors and attitudes that tend to exist male-only or male-dominated spaces. It means seeking out, reading, and starting discussions about articles such as these. It means calling other men out for trying to derail such discussions (see: this thread!) and it means also not letting such derailments dominate the discussion (see: ...)

I usually twinge whenever I see threads like this appear in online gaming communities, but this thread so far and this community give me hope that positive change is actually possible. Of course, then I read about things like the reaction to Beamdog's new Baldur's Gate II expansion and I realize how we still have so very far to go.

 

[Libramarian]

..When I read this article, I was absolutely shocked and appalled. I have been gaming for nearly 24 years and have never seen this sort of offensive behavior.

I think the events in the article are fictional and intended to illustrate the author's feeling of being intimidated by hate mail.

I 100% believe that anonymous death threats to feminist game critics do happen, and that is a serious problem. I don't have a solution to that. That's not something that we can fix with public opprobrium. I know the author of the article hates it when other gamers tell her to go to the police, but they are usually the best resource for crimes with unknown perpetrators.

I can't support the notion that we at enworld need to discuss this and change our behavior. IME gaming communities are literally the least intimidating white male-dominated communities around. Compare this forum to a motoring or bodybuilding forum some time.

 

[Morrus]

I think the events in the article are fictional

What on earth would prompt you to call the writer a liar?

I can't support the notion that we at enworld need to discuss this

This is a discussion form. We discuss things. That's the whole point of it.

 

[Libramarian]

What on earth would prompt you to call the writer a liar?

I didn't call her a liar! I said I think the events in the ++++ sections are fictional. I don't know to what extent the author intended for people to realize this or not. I say this for three reasons:
a) they're completely implausible
b) they're inserted into the article without any preamble or clarification about their veracity
c) the author is a fanfic writer and they read like fanfic