Dungeon Command are Card hands & combat cards visible to all players?

[Fire Brand]

Greetings-


WotC no longer supports this OOP game so they instructed me to ask on forums.


One thing the rules don’t seem to state:


Is a player’s creature and order card hands held face down in secret except for the creature cards for the minis that are deployed on the battlefield and any attached order cards?


Or are all cards in all hands face up visible to all players in front of the players. With the only cards face down being the decks?


Also, when any cards are played in combat. Are they played onto or near the board if they need to be stacked?

Or if immediate “defense” order cards have to be played against standard “attack” order cards or creature cards that are used for attacks without order cards?


I got the game on sale for the adventure system cards which is a nice bonus but am not used to card games like Magic. I’m used to rolling D&D dice and character sheets or the Adventure system gameplay where you know where the components are supposed to be.


I’m learning DC solo at the moment.


Thanks and regards!

 

[Jhaelen]

A Player's hand is hidden.

I don't understand your second question.

You may get more answers if you try posting the question over at Board Game Geek.

 

[Fire Brand]

Thank you for the quick response!

I thought about BGG. I will do that today. I don't usually get a quick response for an older game.


I'm being descriptively wordy in typical fashion. But it's a basic concept to most of the card game is why I ask.


The bottom line is that I was working on a DC video for my collectibles & board game channel that also has D&D vids I just shared. I wanted to be correct because the DC rulebook does not address the fundamental way cards are played.


I'm learning the game solo. Even so if I were learning it with someone who never played DC there would be those fundamental card playing questions.


Other good youtube videos don't help in that regard.






I picked up two DC faction packs for $7 shipped MIB with a $50 rewards coupon just for the minis & Monster cards for my four D&D Adventure System board games.


I'm house ruling DC using a d20 and the attack modifiers & AC on the included Monster cards.


I finally got around to seeing if DC was a fun as some people say. Or initially interesting but not so much after that.


I'm learning to play DC as a graphic designer who has a D&D collection interested by the esthetic DC components enough to try it out.








WotC markets it as a minis skirmish game when in fact it plays more like a card game using minis to visualize combat positioning in order to resolve combat with the cards not traditional dice.




WotC rulebook takes it for granted that we've played TCG's. When in fact some people buy DC for the D&D minis. Which is a game normally played throughout the ages using iconic dice. At least one d20. It's unusual to resolve a minis game with cards not dice. Let alone a D&D minis game sans dice(!) That's hard to wrap my head around lol








This might be clearer if I asked in a video ; ...


After I thought about it sometimes posting a Q can get me to answer my own question soon after. your concise answer verifies it.


In most card games - which I do not play very often - I realized now that it's assumed that a "hand" means cards are known only to the player "holding" the hand.


The confusion comes in learning it solo having all card "hands" laid out visible.


I'm used to Xwing minis and original D&D minis. I call DC order card “upgrade” cards in fact. combat in those minis/card games is resolved in the middle of the gameplay area with the dice not with opposed cards.






So back to the Q's. if anyone has read this far ;


1) The second question's answer was dependent on the first answer. In a 2-4 player game, creature cards –whose corresponding minis are deployed in play on the battlefield– are visible to all players in front of the player when "attacking" to resolve combat (or technically to resolve "damage" and opposed damage reduction since there are no attack modifiers or AC in the game. I call the DC order cards "Standard Damage Actions" and "Immediate Interrupt Defense or Damage Reduction" in fact). Those order cards and minor quick action order cards plus order cards attached underneath creature cards are also visible to all players at that point in *front* of each player from their hands. Damage needs to be tracked with HP tokens on or near the damaged creature's card face up in front of the player.






2) I never played WotC Magic the Gathering which DC is based on. I have played other TCG in the distant past without minis. The cards were played against each other thrown down in the middle on the table. Sometimes it matters if they cover each other up and sometimes it doesn't matter they are just thrown in the middle so everyone can see them.




So where are the "combat" creature & order cards actually played to resolve damage between 2-4 players? On the battlefield board? I wonder because there are minis all over a board in the middle. I'd have to assume cards are played somewhere in the middle wherever there's room or on or off to the side of the board where everyone can see them(?)




Or would "combat" cards need to be played in the middle *only* if opposing cards need to be "stacked" as DC rules call it. In other words just play a creature card power plus any order card(s) to "attack" in front of you and the defending player puts “immediate interrupt" order cards in front of them unless they have to be stacked and just call out the values & powers? Or is it automatic that all "combat" card should be played in the middle regardless of whether they need to be "stacked" so everyone can see them better?


I wanted to be specific in leiu of a video visually trying to figure that out right now.






If you got thru that book of a post. Thanks and regards for your time!!!! I'll give anyone a shout out if you want it in my DC video.

 

[Jhaelen]

Okay, I see. Well, apart from cards that are attached to a creature, it doesn't matter where you play the cards, usually, you'll play them in any free area beside the board that allows both players to see the cards. Typically, when we've been new to the game, we were reading the card effects aloud. That makes it easier for both players to track what's going on until they've memorized (most of) the cards.
Note that any cards that have been played are considered open information, so any player is allowed to check and read the cards at any time during the game, if desired.

You're right that the 'stacking' rules are inspired by MtG, but otherwise there aren't actually many similarities. There are more similarities to the D&D Miniatures skirmish game that was DCs predecessor (and the D&D 4e RPG). But DC's more streamlined, despite adding MtG-like combat maneuver cards.

 

[Fire Brand]

Thanx very much for taking the time!

makes sense


I like my house ruling one d20 using the Monster card attack bonus & AC

however creatures last longer so you cant add to the hand or deploy more creatures unless that's house ruled such as roll a d20 and on a 10 or more or another value in fact deploy a creature not sure yet but that was the only down side otherwise felt a lot more like D&D and the randomness had fun surprising results.

the one thing that came up was fury of gruumsh attached to an ogre made him take 20 damage after each attack basically (end of activation pretty much is). seemed a bit harsh of a penalty but made tactics more interesting when to attack and when to retreat.

Question: attached cards are always attached? you cannot detach and discard them? I think the answer is yes ;

 

[Jhaelen]

the one thing that came up was fury of gruumsh attached to an ogre made him take 20 damage after each attack basically (end of activation pretty much is).

Unfortunately, that doesn't work because 'Fury of Gruumsh' can only be attached to a creature with the 'Orc' subtype which the Ogre lacks.

Question: attached cards are always attached? you cannot detach and discard them? I think the answer is yes ;

Yes, they remain attached unless removed via other abilities or card effects, e.g. I recall that there's some action card like 'Remove Curse' that allows you to remove an attached card.

 

[Fire Brand]

Thanx for reminding me. thanks for all the responses!

I did catch myself on one of the ability matches. and had to look at the discard graveyard pile to double-check that I had matched another one. when I do make a mistake I tend to remember what to look for next time.

You can tell the system is pretty good and the text is relatively straight forward when WotC never released and FAQ that anyone could find ;

I asked someone a question about wrath of ashardalon once they had a really good gameplay vid. they said they couldn't remember the ruling on it they hadn't played it in a long time.

It can be extremely difficult or confusing learning a game solo or really even playing one you're familiar with. although you can be distracted talking playing a normal game too but usually someone will catch the mistake(s).

theres some games in the past I used a rule from a similar game and didn't realize it until the outcome seemed a bit odd.


I was shooting an informative minis demo vid which I intentionally setup with interesting events going on in a short time frame a bit out of the normal gameplay. forgot to add a critical hit token next to a ship–which isn't a super common event and not super necessary when you have the card in front of you but helpful and they are the rules–and move a stress token with a ship (which I actually a typed up rules steps and added that as a sub step to remember to do. I see enough youtube games they forget to move tokens with ships) and add target lock tokens from a upgrade card -after- an attack on a ship that normally doesn't have a target lock action and you normally dont do it after an attack. if I just flat out played it without worrying about video I'd still miss some of those that are out of the ordinary. and controlling al of the minis in DC or Xw gets confusing. but ultimately fun. sometimes I playa solo game to win on that turn including retreating for a subsequent turn. or choose a side and favor it to win as if I'm playing that side. odd dynamic not quite like a one player video game lol

I'm playing curse of undeath between itself this week then I'll play CoU vs BoG. Custom war bands with both of them would be very confusing but fun.

I still have to try the DC "Monster" minis cards with the adventure system board games. I got used to calling them Creatures in DC but prefer classic D&D terminology Monsters in other D&D games to the point I complained to WotC during 5e test play they referred to the Monster Manual as the Bestiary which Pathfinder calls it. thank god they went back to the original title of the book ; )

Thanx again!

PS interesting how enworld adds an Xwing logo when it posts(!)

 

[Jhaelen]

You can tell the system is pretty good and the text is relatively straight forward when WotC never released and FAQ that anyone could find ;

I agree. It's a quite sound design.
There used to be a FAQ article at their support site, but apparently it's no longer available. Here's the content as of 16/10/2012:

Rules FAQ
How do I determine which creatures I can deploy during set up?
You draw an initial creature hand equal to the creature hand size on your commander, and use those for your starting deployment.
Can I use a creature power to change the location of where an Adventurer deploys due to the Behind Enemy Lines card? (For example, the War Wizard's Arcane Portal power)
No. Creature powers like Arcane Portal affect normal deployment rules. When deploying using Behind Enemy Lines, you have to follow the rules on that card, which in this case means deploying in the enemy start zone.
When the Umber Hulk uses Confusion Gaze, who makes the melee attack? The Umber Hulk, or the slid creature?
The Umber Hulk makes the melee attack.
If an adventurer creature is adjacent to two Dwarven Defender creatures, does the Block 10 ability stack?
No. Multiple instances of an ability like "Block 10" do not stack.
When I use a slide ability on one of my own creatures, does it benefit from its special movement like flying or burrowing?
No. Slid creatures use normal movement restrictions.

Errata
• Faerie Fire is a Level 2 INT spell. One of the cards in the Sting of Lolth set was misprinted as Level 1.
• The Horned Devil from the Tyranny of Goblins faction pack's Reach ability should read:
Reach 2(This creature can make melee attacks against creatures 2 squares away.)

 

[Fire Brand]

thanx very much! most of those are straightforward especially the firsttone but thats sortof along the lines of my fundamental clarification questions.

I read about faire fire.

two other things jumped out at me as a re read the rulebook

1. after setup drawing an order hand then you start at the refresh phase and draw yet another order card. they don't clarify 'in addition to the starting order card hand' but it seems assumed that you do draw an extra one which is a but odd but understandable at the same time but it made me look for an exception for the first turn.

2. the quick rules reference on the back cover during Setup says something like draw back up to your starting creature hand yet I don't know of an instance where that would happen. I would hope no creatures are destroyed before the game starts in order to lose a card so you have to draw up to ; am I missing something or did they just type that wrong?

thanx again you've been very helpful!

 

[Jhaelen]

2. the quick rules reference on the back cover during Setup says something like draw back up to your starting creature hand yet I don't know of an instance where that would happen. I would hope no creatures are destroyed before the game starts in order to lose a card so you have to draw up to ; am I missing something or did they just type that wrong?

Item 4 of the setup says:

4. Deploy your starting creatures and draw back up to your Creature hand size. Each player deploys all his or her creatures before the next player begins.

I suspect what you've been missing is that creatures you deploy during Setup (or later in the game during the deployment phase) are no longer considered part of your hand. Deploying a creature means that you place the creature card face up in front of you and place the mini in your starting area. Since the rules say that you must deploy at least one creature during Setup, you will always have to draw at least one creature card afterwards!