D&D 5E How does the Phantasmal Force spell work correctly?

[lkwpeter]

Thanks again for your answers!

Last question: I found the following statement from a player concerning the question whether or not it would be possible to grab a creature with illusionary lava chains that knock it prone and hold it afterwards. Would you agree?

While a target is affected by the spell, the target treats the phantasm as if it were real.

Obviously this speaks to the reality of the spell.

A phantasm created to appear as a creature can attack the target. Similarly, a phantasm created to appear as fire, a pool of acid, or lava can burn the target.

That part details that whatever you describe can function as it normally would if it were real.

An affected target is so convinced of the phantasm’s reality that it can even take damage from the illusion.

And that part reinforces it all over again.

The phantasm includes sound, temperature, and other stimuli, also evident only to the creature.

That's the part where the illusion actually feels real to the affected target. This means that the chains, for all intents and purposes, are real to the target. Up to and including touch.

Obviously the writers couldn't outline literally every single illusion you can conceivably cast, so you have to extrapolate a bit. The three quoted parts above clearly demonstrate that the phantasm, for all intents and purposes, functions in whatever manner you describe as if it were real.

The balance is built in with the damage caused by the spell. It doesn't really hurt that bad at a meager 1d6, so using it as a means of crowd control is a far more effective and creative use.

So what can you do with this spell?

Well, you can't create things that are actually real, so you couldn't get a creature to cross a bridge no matter how hard it tried. It would simply keep falling and chalking it up to earthquakes or something.

However, in my opinion, if the creature is capable of performing the action without an external force acting on it, like being restrained by hot chains, then that is definitely within the bounds of the spell. It requires no contradiction and no actual force because the creature will act as if it is restrained.

This is reinforced by the last sentence of the spell:

The target perceives the damage as a type appropriate to the illusion.

This statement means, quite clearly, that the affected target is perceiving the pain of being afflicted by whatever illusion you cast. That, coupled with all the statements in the spell that treat the illusion as if it were real, and the stimuli accompanying the illusion, make it so that the illusion for all practical purposes, counts as real for the target, and the target alone.

 

[CapnZapp]

Hey,

1.)
I read a lot about "casting a black container around a creature's head" so that the creature is blinded. Or "casting some loud noises to it's ears, so it is deafend". But is that really possible?

Normally, I'd say that since neither condition "blinded" nor "deafened" is in the spell description, it isn't possible.

But looking at the greater picture: it's a level 2 spell with a save (possibly each round) requiring Concentration.

So, essentially it's the Intelligence version of Hold Person. As such, it's hardly overpowered.
It's better, for sure (Int beats Wis; no "undead" restriction beats no "person") but not so much better that it's outright broken.

I would, however, base my decision as DM whether the creature does investigate chiefly based on how inconvenienced the monster has become. If you pull a bag over its head, for instance; the monster will definitely investigate (thus making it into the Hold Person lookalike)

So the real power of the spell lies in using in a way that does not give the monster a reason to investigate, while still removing it from the encounter. I would say that this is generally much easier if cast BEFORE any combat starts.

 

[Lanefan]

I don't think you have very fine control over what the illusion does, but I would let you set general parameters, like "I create an illusion of the lieutenent who orders the guard to report to the king." You would need to have seen the lieutenant.

If I had to pick one I'd probably go with PF. In part because it isn't language dependent. But PF is also more DM dependent, so that's a factor.

How on earth can your illusion order the lieutentant to do anything if you-as-caster don't have a language in common with her?

Interesting to note, however, that 5e illusions can speak at all. One of the major restrictions on low-level illusions in the past was that while they could make all kinds of sounds they couldn't intelligibly speak, meaning that to achieve speech from an illusion you needed a second caster acting in concert with Ventriloquism. I suspect this was done in part to avoid arguments around illusions trying to cast verbal-only spells.

Lanefan

 

[Gadget]

It's important to note that phantasms are not like other illusions due to the fact that they exist largely in the victim's mind. I believe 3e had quite a set of definitions and explanations about the various types of magic and such; 5e seem to have, at least in part, followed along with that. As such, it is not out of line to think that the spell draws on the victim's mind and experience to create the phantasm, as the spell Phantasmal Killer makes explicit in its description. So it is not beyond the bounds of belief that the victim could hear intended dialog in its own language, though I personally would not go that far in a ruling.

 

[Bacon Bits]

Thanks again for your answers!

Last question: I found the following statement from a player concerning the question whether or not it would be possible to grab a creature with illusionary lava chains that knock it prone and hold it afterwards. Would you agree?

You could have the phantasm appear as lava chains that lash to the target such that the target would perceive the chains as trying to pull him or her down, but the chains themselves would not trip him. He would likely interpret it as him successfully resisting the chains' attempting to pull him down. He would twist and contort believing he was held, but he wouldn't actually be held because nothing was there. He would likely interpret that as the chains somehow bending or allowing him to move and then instantly re-tightening.

You'd be much further along to have a red-hot iron cage appear around the target, with a spiked roof of the cage lowering down onto him. This would encourage the target to get down on the ground of his own free will, and he would shy away from the bars so as not to take more damage than necessary, remaining in one place.

Or, you could have the target think the floor dropped out from under him for 10 feet, and then have acid or burning alcohol pour into the small prison from the top. The target would try to scramble up the walls, but since they aren't actually there he would fall over. He'd interpret that as the acid or burning alcohol covered walls being too difficult to climb.

Or, you could have the target believe you've thrown an opaque black cloth at their head, which wraps around it and squeezes them. They wouldn't be able to see, would believe they have a hard time breathing, and would be clawing at their own face to get this cloth off their head that they can feel but that doesn't actually exist.

Phantasmal force is a nightmarish spell. Use it to channel your nightmares.

 

[I'm A Banana]

How on earth can your illusion order the lieutentant to do anything if you-as-caster don't have a language in common with her?

Interesting to note, however, that 5e illusions can speak at all. One of the major restrictions on low-level illusions in the past was that while they could make all kinds of sounds they couldn't intelligibly speak, meaning that to achieve speech from an illusion you needed a second caster acting in concert with Ventriloquism. I suspect this was done in part to avoid arguments around illusions trying to cast verbal-only spells.

Lanefan

Flavor-wise, phantasms are creations of the target's mind, not images created in space. So the illusionist can use this to her advantage - the target's mind will fill in gaps and make assumptions that are in line with the created effect being real. It's not like the illusionist is making the illusion say something, it's like the illusionist is saying, "get this concept across" and the target's mind shows the target what the concept would look like from the target's perspective. So, it relies on the target's sense of what's possible, not the illusionist's. That's part of why they're just single-target.

This is contrasted with the "image" spells which are essentially creations of light and magical force that everyone can see/hear/smell/etc. (as the spell entails). Those don't exist in the target's mind, they exist in space, and are just deceptive images.

A phantasm is closer to a charm - it changes your perception of what is real.

 

[jaelis]

How on earth can your illusion order the lieutentant to do anything if you-as-caster don't have a language in common with her?

it is debatable whether you'd need to know the target's language in that situation. But my point about it not being language dependent is that there are a million other ways to use the spell that certainly don't depend on language. Suggestion is more precise if you want to get someone to do something, but PF is more flexible.

 

[Lanefan]

it is debatable whether you'd need to know the target's language in that situation. But my point about it not being language dependent is that there are a million other ways to use the spell that certainly don't depend on language.

Oh, believe me, I know this! A couple of my best characters (one in 1e, one in 3e) have been Illusionists...tee hee!...

Suggestion is more precise if you want to get someone to do something, but PF is more flexible.

Suggestion is also very useful if you want to get someone to, in effect, do nothing. My favourite is "I suggest you tell this tree [or this guard, or this dog, whatever] the name of every person you have ever met, whose name you remember." That'll keep 'em busy for hours!

Lanefan

 

[Stormdale]

My party dissed phantasmal force till I started dropping imaginary 10ft blocks of stone (amongst other things) on opponents and pinning them under it (hence the damage)- we ruled knocking them prone and allowing my companions to beat the crap out if them with advantage. Having to use an action to interact with the spell means opponents waste their actions too just trying to figure out what is going on. It is not a save each round unlike many spells the target needs to use their action to interact with it.

The key is to make something believeable but which also damages- a constricting snake wrapping round them for example.

The fact it only affects one creature in 5E means that often your targets companions will stand round confused wondering why their leader is acting weird, yelling screaming etc and nothing appears to be hurting them.

It is my favourite spell for messing with monsters (and DMs). I even used it to web a dragon's wings together and was a tad disappointed when the dragon used a legendary save to avoid plummeting to earth as its wings were now bound- thought I had the DM with that one.

Stormdale

 

[Gwarok]

Hey,

1.)
I read a lot about "casting a black container around a creature's head" so that the creature is blinded. Or "casting some loud noises to it's ears, so it is deafend". But is that really possible?

2.)
Also I would like to know, how creatures act that I cast. For example if I want to make a hostile creature beliefe that his boss is talking to him and wants it to leave his guard post. Can I interact with the illusion or change things after I cast it?

3.)
What other restrictions are there? And what is the best use of it?


Thanks in advance!

Honestly, given that it is the one illusion spell that is internal to the target rather than externally perceived, you theoretically should be able to do whatever you want to someone that fails their save. If you've got total control over what a person sees, hears, feels, that's the ballgame. Think Tyler Durden from Fight Club kicking the crap out of himself for 10 minutes straight. It really should be higher than 2nd level, unless you sort of put a lot of hand waving limitations on it.