D&D 4E A gathering of Martial Controllers - what do you think

[AbdulAlhazred]

yup I think that covers it ok...

But you know part of the paradigm of combat roles really is wrapped around things other than pure damage being valuable.

I don't disagree. I think its just difficult to realistically see how arrows do much besides damage, at least not incidentally. Its a lot easier to buy how you stun a guy with the pommel of your sword with a slick move, etc. and it is easy to buy how its easier or more likely to be able to do that than just kill him dead with the same set of blows.

So, I don't think an archer/controller is maybe IMPOSSIBLE to do plausibly, but I think his control is likely to come, at least partly, from stuff that isn't directly based on his archery. Or its based on things like "presenting a dire threat so significant that enemies change their tactics" or something like that, coupled with a smattering of those 'luck shot' things like mentioned before. I mean, if we're talking about this in the context of a warlord, then maybe he's 'Sun Tze' and he just knows to focus in the right spot to make his tactics work, so you just make it somewhat more 'leaderesque' but just the controllery side (because leaders definitely do blend with controllers to some extent at the edges, much like defenders do).

 

[Garthanos]

Awesome! You could do that one as a class feature though, "Gory Killer: Whenever you reduce an enemy to zero hit points you do CHA+3 psychic damage to all other enemies within 3 squares of the enemy you just reduced to zero hit points."

Or a feat

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Or a feat

Oh, sure, seems like a reasonable feat.

 

[Garthanos]

I and it is easy to buy how its easier or more likely to be able to do that than just kill him dead with the same set of blows.

Is the pinning shot necessarily because you are just that good or is it accidental which you or an ally can then take advantage of... Joxer doesnt mean to hit the wall and knock it on their heads it just works out that way.

Yes SET em um so they can be knocked down easier makes sense if you do not have ammo in risk of running out soon. One attack that distracts their attention or hampers their defending hinders their shield or dodging can make subsequent attacks much more likely and deadly.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Is the pinning shot necessarily because you are just that good or is it accidental which you or an ally can then take advantage of... Joxer doesnt mean to hit the wall and knock it on their heads it just works out that way.

Yes SET em um so they can be knocked down easier makes sense if you do not have ammo in risk of running out soon. One attack that distracts their attention or hampers their defending hinders their shield or dodging can make subsequent attacks much more likely and deadly.

Thematically I'd say accidental results are a lot easier to buy if they're say, rolled randomly! When the player deliberately plans out his actions with X in mind, and its simply chance from the perspective of the character, then there's a pretty big divergence between action and expectation in the game. Also it becomes a bit silly after you've pinned your 10th enemy to call it accidental.

 

[Garthanos]

Also it becomes a bit silly after you've pinned your 10th enemy to call it accidental.

That at-will thing can be just too frequent

 

[Garthanos]

Also it becomes a bit silly after you've pinned your 10th enemy to call it accidental.

That at-will thing can be just too frequent

"I try to hit them hard honest I do but I guess at heart I really don't want to hurt anyone and I flinch... "

 

[Garthanos]

That at-will thing can be just too frequent

"I try to hit them hard honest I do but I guess at heart I really don't want to hurt anyone and I flinch... "

Then again an injury causing slowed enemy might be anything from an arrow through the foot ...

to a belly wound

And it might even be a head wound causing momentary dizziness... mix em up with injuries that induce the enemy to actually fall down

or ones inducing stunning etc




I come back to wishing that specialization didnt kill versatility.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Then again an injury causing slowed enemy might be anything from an arrow through the foot ...

to a belly wound

And it might even be a head wound causing momentary dizziness... mix em up with injuries that induce the enemy to actually fall down

or ones inducing stunning etc




I come back to wishing that specialization didnt kill versatility.

I agree, it can, but don't some of the cause dazing, or knock prone, or... I guess if you have a variety of powers that do each thing, then it takes on some level of credibility much like fighters do with melee weapons. Its still a bit odd. I mean when its the Ranger, who's BASICALLY trying to gank you outright, and he sometimes pushes you or slows you or whatever that's interesting. If that's MOST of what you're doing with arrows, kinda feels like you're doing something wrong, lol.

 

[Garthanos]

If that's MOST of what you're doing with arrows, kinda feels like you're doing something wrong, lol.

one might actually argue that having any attack that only delivers hit point damage, them impairment free wounds seem wierd, feels like it isnt inducing an injury at all....