D&D 4E A gathering of Martial Controllers - what do you think

[Garthanos]

Yeah, that's awesome. I love that kind of stuff.

Another context of unusual Warlord style maneuver that I thought was interesting was how one could
see Bilbo as engaging in a long distance warlording buff when the thrush told Bard about smaugs vulnerability

(The game FATE could do it LOL)

 

[Garthanos]

Having just the right piece of specialized equipment at just the right time... etc.

Let's elaborate.

I can implement that rather easily with my Karma system ... (the hero of this stripe gets a karma price discount for that trick as many hero may be able to do it and gets to take credit for having planned it out LOL)

For one thing it seems to be related to the "Resourceful Warlord" or atleast somewhat perhaps not as this is an item that has situational value like a Bane tool item.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Let's elaborate.

I can implement that rather easily with my Karma system ... (the hero of this stripe gets a karma price discount for that trick as many hero may be able to do it and gets to take credit for having planned it out LOL)

For one thing it seems to be related to the "Resourceful Warlord" or atleast somewhat perhaps not as this is an item that has situational value like a Bane tool item.

Hmmmmm, so, this makes me think about my version of Inspiration (which is rather different from 5e's, although in a VERY general sense they are aimed at basically doing similar things). When you have Inspiration you can trade it for some sort of narrative (and potentially mechanical) advantage, its basically a plot coupon. However you must spend it by reference to a character trait (I generally let players pick a strength, a weakness, and a goal or a quirk, but exactly what qualifies is a bit open-ended and might even include things like an affliction or a boon).

Now, thinking about how this could integrate with class mechanics of the type you're suggesting....

One obvious point would be making "because I'm a Resourceful Warlord" a legitimately invokable trait. That could be spelled out in plain terms too, like "You can expend your Inspiration to do X". Oppositely it might also provide situations where you can GAIN Inspiration. Currently you do that by accepting an 'obstacle' (again, you invoke a character trait to do this). A Warlord might pick up a point any time his side seems to be 'uninspired' (IE in a bad spot). Maybe that would be represented by an ally being dropped, the acquiring of a 2nd failure in an SC, etc.

Seems like it has some potential. 4e could also use my version of Inspiration, it wouldn't require any changes to how it works now.

 

[Garthanos]

So arguably multi-attacking is a pervue of the controller and I think notch it up for martial is necessary too.

Inspiration for a ranger and rogue power.... the pinball projectile trick shot.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PinballProjectile

What you killed them all with one arrow?

Actually I would allow twin strike to be reflavored as one arrow through two enemies, buy a trick shot high balanced heavy arrow , and use it with twin strike against enemies in vaguely similar direction LOL.

Yes I just tempted with TV tropes arent I evil

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

So arguably multi-attacking is a pervue of the controller and I think notch it up for martial is necessary too.

Inspiration for a ranger and rogue power.... the pinball projectile trick shot.

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PinballProjectile

What you killed them all with one arrow?

Actually I would allow twin strike to be reflavored as one arrow through two enemies, buy a trick shot high balanced heavy arrow , and use it with twin strike against enemies in vaguely similar direction LOL.

Yes I just tempted with TV tropes arent I evil

I made my save. Archery as control just still bugs me. If you are SO accurate that you can do these amazing trick shots that dumbfound your opponents and manipulate them so well, can't you just put one right through their left eye every single time you pull your bow? Seems like you would.

 

[Garthanos]

I made my save. Archery as control just still bugs me. If you are SO accurate that you can do these amazing trick shots that dumbfound your opponents and manipulate them so well, can't you just put one right through their left eye every single time you pull your bow? Seems like you would.

And even if you do not like vicious... alah William Tell and Robinhood they might bounce an arrow off their enemies helmets to perfectly knock them out which is still in D&D land reduce hp to zero

I used the word Arguably because it is really that "Blaster" roll over with a side of minion clearing ... not really too much "control."

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And even if you do not like vicious... alah William Tell and Robinhood they might bounce an arrow off their enemies helmets to perfectly knock them out which is still in D&D land reduce hp to zero

I used the word Arguably because it is really that "Blaster" roll over with a side of minion clearing ... not really too much "control."

Well, "non-violent combat with arrows" strikes me as silly too, but it certainly is genre-appropriate. I would call it 'non-lethal attacks' though and not 'control'.

I think the whole 'trick shots' thing simply has to be chalked up to the fantastic. It isn't logical in any way shape or form, and even in a fantasy world nobody would use their skill that way if they were trying to kill their targets, but people want it!

One way I could see it being more plausible and narratively coherent would be if it was "something plus" In other words you DO kill your target (or at least harm them as much as the game is feasibly going to allow) AND THEN you also do X, Y, or Z. In other words your basic bread-n-butter attacks, RBA, at-wills, are basically just being as deadly as feasible. and then your encounter/daily shots are those times when you were so bad-assed that you actually did "something more" than just poke a hole in one guy. Or else they're times when you reacted or made an extra attack, etc. which are all pretty unremarkable extras.

So, maybe now and then you pin a guy to the wall/floor, bounce a shot into a 2nd target, cut some strap or whatnot, etc. I think if you look at the 4e ranger powers they are largely of this type, with a small number of more fantastical and dubious things thrown in now and then.

That still doesn't leave a lot of room for real hard control.

 

[Garthanos]

In other words your basic bread-n-butter attacks, RBA, at-wills, are basically just being as deadly as feasible. and then your encounter/daily shots are those times when you were so bad-assed that you actually did "something more" than just poke a hole in one guy.

Killed him so furiously that the splattering blood freaked out all his friends in a radius?

 

[Garthanos]

So, maybe now and then you pin a guy to the wall/floor, bounce a shot into a 2nd target, cut some strap or whatnot, etc. I think if you look at the 4e ranger powers they are largely of this type, with a small number of more fantastical and dubious things thrown in now and then.

yup I think that covers it ok...

But you know part of the paradigm of combat roles really is wrapped around things other than pure damage being valuable.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Killed him so furiously that the splattering blood freaked out all his friends in a radius?

Awesome! You could do that one as a class feature though, "Gory Killer: Whenever you reduce an enemy to zero hit points you do CHA+3 psychic damage to all other enemies within 3 squares of the enemy you just reduced to zero hit points."