D&D 4E D&D 4E Homebrew Rules & Changes - Looking for feedback

[MwaO]

Right. A lot of it is about combining one of the top at-wills with a build that has a nova option to burn off all the standard action encounter powers, leaving just immediates. Do that and you're going to be well on your way.

Swordmage MC Druid as an example:
Initiate of the Old Faith gives Wildshape+Grasping Claws(melee basic) or you can just go WereX for a theme.
At-Will - Magic Stones = attack and mark 3 targets
Encounter - Charm Beast+Wind Wall, eventually Charm Beast+Infiltrating Drone
Daily - Clinging Drone(no shifting next to Fighter for rest of combat is effect!)+Writhing Henge eventually
Utility - lots of choices - Serpent's Cunning for +1 power bonus to Intelligence attacks+free skill+bonuses, Camouflage Cloak for encounter Invisibility, Clear the Chaff for a very strong leader saving throw option.

Take lots of Swordmage interrupt options and then you're set.

 

[Garthanos]

Right. A lot of it is about combining one of the top at-wills with a build that has a nova option to burn off all the standard action encounter powers, leaving just immediates. Do that and you're going to be well on your way.

Swordmage MC Druid as an example:

And most would only ever stumble on such a thing...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

And most would only ever stumble on such a thing...

Oh, you'd be surprised...

I had a guy that hardly bothered to play. He ran a bow ranger. Well, I didn't pay too much attention to what he was doing with it, but I did notice he was pretty effective. So one day I went into CB, which he'd been using during our sessions to maintain his character sheet (because he wasn't into 4e enough to buy a sub). He was just totally optimized. He'd figured out (by now he was 9th level I think) that interrupts and immediates were stupid good, and he'd just looted the CB for those suckers. His character was so front loaded he'd take out 2 standards in rounds 1 and 2, and not even break a sweat. If he bothered at all he'd blow an elite off the map and STILL have firepower to spare. I hate to think what would have happened if he'd figured out a few MCing tricks.

 

[MwaO]

Oh, you'd be surprised...

I had a guy that hardly bothered to play. He ran a bow ranger. Well, I didn't pay too much attention to what he was doing with it, but I did notice he was pretty effective. So one day I went into CB, which he'd been using during our sessions to maintain his character sheet (because he wasn't into 4e enough to buy a sub). He was just totally optimized. He'd figured out (by now he was 9th level I think) that interrupts and immediates were stupid good, and he'd just looted the CB for those suckers. His character was so front loaded he'd take out 2 standards in rounds 1 and 2, and not even break a sweat. If he bothered at all he'd blow an elite off the map and STILL have firepower to spare. I hate to think what would have happened if he'd figured out a few MCing tricks.

Yeah, it isn't really *that* hard. Just most people who don't realize there's more restrict themselves to Ranger for poaching Twin Strike/Disruptive Strike+a variety of reasonably strong choices.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Yeah, it isn't really *that* hard. Just most people who don't realize there's more restrict themselves to Ranger for poaching Twin Strike/Disruptive Strike+a variety of reasonably strong choices.

Right, I was just mostly saying to [MENTION=82504]Garthanos[/MENTION] that even the less engaged players can, and do, easily optimize their characters. Of course plenty of them also don't, but you surely didn't need to be paying much attention. There's little doubt that MCing is in no way too obscure for most. I think ALL of my players figured out it was a good deal eventually, though only a few really took the time to find good power swaps. Still, even mathematical illiterates understand that getting a d6 damage die added to one attack every fight, plus a good skill, is a pretty decent return on one feat.

 

[MwaO]

Right, I was just mostly saying to [MENTION=82504]Garthanos[/MENTION] that even the less engaged players can, and do, easily optimize their characters. Of course plenty of them also don't, but you surely didn't need to be paying much attention. There's little doubt that MCing is in no way too obscure for most. I think ALL of my players figured out it was a good deal eventually, though only a few really took the time to find good power swaps. Still, even mathematical illiterates understand that getting a d6 damage die added to one attack every fight, plus a good skill, is a pretty decent return on one feat.

Right. Sneak of Shadows in particular is a very obvious, high value feat in early 4e - +7/10.5/17.5 front loaded damage at the cost of a feat? Plus a skill Ranger can't get by default? Works with Light Blade Expertise and Rapiers?

 

[Garthanos]

Right, I was just mostly saying to [MENTION=82504]Garthanos[/MENTION] that even the less engaged players can, and do, easily optimize their characters.

Well I was specifically thinking of the particular Swordmage and Druid combo with my comment...

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Right. Sneak of Shadows in particular is a very obvious, high value feat in early 4e - +7/10.5/17.5 front loaded damage at the cost of a feat? Plus a skill Ranger can't get by default? Works with Light Blade Expertise and Rapiers?

Yeah, it isn't even bad with a 'sword and buckler' type Fighter build.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Well I was specifically thinking of the particular Swordmage and Druid combo with my comment...

Well, that one is a bit more obscure to the extent that nobody played a druid in our games until MUCH later. PHB2 classes oddly didn't see a vast amount of play. There was a Warden, a Swordmage, and a Bard. I guess it was mostly just a matter of opportunity. There's so many 4e classes that we probably never even got to half of them yet. Probably never will at this point. I'm stuck out here in Seattle and it seems there's very little interest in 4e on the ground here.

 

[Garthanos]

Well, that one is a bit more obscure to the extent that nobody played a druid in our games until MUCH later. PHB2 classes oddly didn't see a vast amount of play. There was a Warden, a Swordmage, and a Bard. I guess it was mostly just a matter of opportunity. There's so many 4e classes that we probably never even got to half of them yet. Probably never will at this point. I'm stuck out here in Seattle and it seems there's very little interest in 4e on the ground here.

I am going to be in the area (Canby Oregon and possibly a few other places for site seeing depending on how relaxed we take the trip out) in late June but not for very long