D&D 5E Non-stealth surprise

[epithet]

I'm more concerned about avoiding a situation where the PC's are invading a dungeon complex or enemy stronghold and every room after the first (or whenever the DM decides the defenders are aware of the PC's) has multiple guards with readied attacks as soon as a PC opens a door.

For that reason, I don't allow readied actions outside of initiative situations (because initiative isn't always for combat - just usually). You may disagree.

I think that if the defenders are aware that their dungeon is being invaded by the PCs (not just generally, but they know the PCs are outside the door) then the PCs should absolutely be greeted with a swarm of crossbow bolts from behind the cover of an overturned table.

 

[Caliban]

I think that if the defenders are aware that their dungeon is being invaded by the PCs (not just generally, but they know the PCs are outside the door) then the PCs should absolutely be greeted with a swarm of crossbow bolts from behind the cover of an overturned table.

Yeah, but not as a readied action. Open the door, initiative starts, crossbow bolts come on the guards initiative.

Unless you are starting initiative before they even open the door and the guards have already had a round to prepare.

Otherwise it becomes "Everyone readies an action for me opening the door...." And then it's just readied action vs. readied action.

Or you could just roll initiative as normal and stop making it complicated.

 

[epithet]

Readying an action is not doing something. It's a meta concept. It is a rule in the game which allows you to act before someone else.

Everyone wants to do that. So the game resolves it by having an opposed Dexterity check. The character who wins the check takes the first action.

I would absolutely walk away from a game which allowed readied actions outside of combat. If you win initiative you should go first.

It's a lot simpler than you're trying to make it. Yeah, if you win initiative, you go first. If someone is ready for you, then they can react to your action, on your turn, after you do whatever they were ready for. If you do something they weren't ready for, then they can't react to it. Everyone (with a few specific exceptions) is ready for someone in melee range to move out of the reach of their attacks, but if you have nothing better to do with your turn you can spend your action to be ready for some other specific action or event, too. It's not that big of a deal.

You only get one reaction per round, so unless you're using the optional marking rule you really can't "break the game" with attacks of opportunity or readied actions. Maybe you would walk away from the game, but if you're one of those "You can't do that! The rules don't say you can do that, so you can't!" kind of players, I'd gladly hold the door for you as you left.

 

[Caliban]

I would absolutely walk away from a game which allowed readied actions outside of combat. If you win initiative you should go first.

Maybe you would walk away from the game, but if you're one of those "You can't do that! The rules don't say you can do that, so you can't!" kind of players, I'd gladly hold the door for you as you left.

Ah yes, the old "My way is right and if you don't like it, you won't be playing with me" argument.

It's way more convincing than actual logic or reason - especially when we are talking hypothetical games that neither person is actually involved in.

 

[ad_hoc]

It's a lot simpler than you're trying to make it.

Yes, it is simple. You are allowing people to automatically win initiative.

In your game it is actually better for PCs to lose initiative so that the enemy creatures lose their readied action.

 

[epithet]

...
Or you could just roll initiative as normal and stop making it complicated.

I can easily imagine circumstances where initiative would be rolled before the door was opened, and circumstances where it wasn't, but it's never complicated. The inclusion of reactions in the action economy keeps it simple.

If you're really just hell bent on putting any readied action into iron-clad initiative context, then when the party opens the door and you roll initiative, you begin on the turn of whoever opened the door. Anyone with higher initiative can have an attack held and make it after the triggering action, anyone lower can't. That seems more complicated to me, and unnecessarily limits the people with the highest initiative, but I suppose it's workable.

What's not workable is a scenario where Mr. Armor Pants tromps down the hallway making a huge racket, giving the clever goblins plenty of time to take cover and knock arrows. When Armor Pants kicks in the door to the clever goblins' room, you roll initiative. Twinkle Toes wins, and she prances into the room, detonates some potent AoE on the poor goblins, and prances back out into the hall. By the time you get to the goblins' turn, they're all dead, having never taken a shot, because despite being aware that the party was coming, hearing them outside the door, and having arrows knocked, you felt like they couldn't ready an action until after that door got kicked in and initiative was rolled.

Sure, you can handle that by rolling initiative before every door is opened, but that's a lot of unnecessary initiative. If the party knows the goblins are there, you can roll initiative before the party is anywhere near the door. If the party doesn't know about the goblins, though, letting the goblins use their reactions when the door is kicked in or to be holding an attack waiting for a target to present herself is by far the most elegant way to handle the situation. It is, in fact, what reactions were designed for. It's simple, not complicated.

 

[epithet]

Yes, it is simple. You are allowing people to automatically win initiative.

In your game it is actually better for PCs to lose initiative so that the enemy creatures lose their readied action.

No, but in my game it is definitely better to be the one ready for your enemy.

Where do you get this "automatically win initiative" idea?

 

[epithet]

Ah yes, the old "My way is right and if you don't like it, you won't be playing with me" argument.

It's way more convincing than actual logic or reason - especially when we are talking hypothetical games that neither person is actually involved in.

You got the fact that he was the one making that "argument," not me, right?

 

[Caliban]

It is, in fact, what reactions were designed for. It's simple, not complicated.

Eh, I disagree. But as long as you apply it consistently and your players don't have a problem with it, whether or not I like it is irrelevant.

(I will say that if I was one of your players and was aware that you allowed readied actions outside of combat, we'd all have "readied actions" to attack any enemies once the designated door opener (preferably the warlocks invisible Imp or a caster using an appropriate cantrip) opens the door for us.

Every single time. )

 

[Caliban]

You got the fact that he was the one making that "argument," not me, right?

You both made it. He just had it readied before initiative was rolled and you reacted to it.