TPK: Should I let it happen? Am I being fair?

[solamon77]

In the next game session, my whole party is almost certainly going to die.

They are currently in an adventure that has them invading a doomsday cult's inner sanctum. Inside this secret temple (located under the parties home base town), the cult is summoning a powerful demon with the intent to wipe out the nearby countryside (as doomsday cults are want to do). The cult's temple has a unique secret feature whereby whenever the party kills something inside the temple, the slain creature's soul gets absorbed into the demon summoning, thus making the final boss demon all the more powerful. Even though the mechanic was a secret mechanic, I provided ample clues to tip the party off about how this dungeon works (even going so far as to make the clues more overt to ensure the party would eventually "discover" it on their own).

I also went out of my way to make taking down enemies in a non-lethal manner easy, going so far as to ensure the party always had plenty of sleep arrows, sleep spells, stealth opportunities, and even a player controlled NPC pixie (who is entering the temple for her own reasons) who had the ability to render unconscious most single enemies with one hit. The party ended up discovering this secret mechanic about half-way through the temple which would have been plenty enough time to avoid giving the final boss demon too many souls, but the PCs decided to continue killing everyone anyway.

The adventure is much more complex than I have listed here and is but one part of a much larger campaign, but I didn't want to over-explain things so I left out much of the detail. The post is already longer than I wanted. If anyone has any other questions, feel free to ask.

So here we are now, one session away from the party's ultimate showdown with the demon they helped create and is now WAY more powerful than they can handle. I feel like if I intervene and nerf the fight, I'm sending the message to the players that their actions don't have any real consequences and they won't take subsequent adventures seriously. They knowingly created things as they are right now and I went out of my way to ensure I was being fair (by removing any and all ambiguity to their actions). Furthermore, the party has asked numerous times for me to make the adventures hard (they are all fans of Dark Souls). Should I let the TPK happen?

 

[monsmord]

Given your party's request, their history with the temple, and knowledge of the mechanic - yes. Absolutely yes.

That said, if there's a way for the party to "win" that doesn't necessarily mean battling a foe they can't possibly beat, great. Better yet, is it possible to weaken the summoning/demon to delay or prevent total catastrophe? This would leave the party alive (probably), but dealing with the consequences of their failure. Maybe the demon even allows them to live for that very reason. Their reputation and spirits ruined, they must now face the larger campaign world...

 

[Blue]

I would absolutely have it overpowering, and bring it home to the players (faces they killed swiming up to be "reflected" in the demon's scales, etc.)

That doesn't mean it's a TPK if the characters retreat. Not all groups will, but maybe they will take the campaign loss of letting it be summoned (and then having to deal with the aftermath of that) instead of all dying for no effect.

 

[ccs]

Yes. If a TPK is what the dice give you? Then that's how the story develops.

You should also roll your dice in the open.

 

[was]

...While I believe in letting the dice determine outcomes, if there is absolutely no chance at winning the fight before it even begins than I would find a way to spare their lives.

...Maybe they arrive at the final fight to find that the demon has already been unleashed. After eliminating the remaining cultists, maybe they travel through towns full of slaughtered innocents. They then have to track the demon down, while building their strength somehow, and try to eliminate it.

...Quest failure does not always have to result in PC death. After all, dead PCs rarely feel guilty for their failures.

...You could hit the group with a couple of consequences while they hunt down the demon. Perhaps the slain spirits of the dead haunt the PCs. Maybe local nobles blame the PCs for releasing the Demon and dispatch assassins/bounty hunters to deal with them. Those who worship deities could receive haunting visions and/or dreams.

 

[Jhaelen]

That doesn't mean it's a TPK if the characters retreat. Not all groups will, but maybe they will take the campaign loss of letting it be summoned (and then having to deal with the aftermath of that) instead of all dying for no effect.

This!
Just because the party will almost assuredly fail to defeat the demon, there's still a chance that some of them (or even all) will manage to escape. Also, sometimes my players have surprised me by winning encounters I would have deemed 'impossible' to surivive.

In other words: Play it by the rules, play it fair. The outcome of the encounter will still be in your players' hands, no matter how badly the odds are stacked against them.

 

[Lylandra]

I'd give them a warning that the demon might be out of control if they tried to face him now. Give them a vision, a dream, a nightmare, whatever. They failed, yes, and they should have to think of other means to beat the demon than the method they wrongfully used for the rest of the temple (killing stuff). And yes, I'd let the demon run havoc in the outside world for a while.

What I wouldn't do (but that's just me) is to TPK them without giving them hints (and I do not mean subtle hints, but rather "in your face" hints) that something has gone horribly wrong. From my own experience as a GM, just because *I* think something is obvious that doesn't necessarily mean that it is truely obvious for my players. And I'm talking about people I've played with for over a decade. To me it would feel wrong to "punish" my players for not getting a clue. Unless they were oblivious on purpose because they... simply wanted to kill stuff.

 

[S'mon]

I voted "Kill Them" but of course what I mean is "Play it out fairly and see what happens". They may surprise you. They may escape, or some of them.

 

[solamon77]

The party knew in no uncertain terms that their actions were feeding the inevitable strength of the demon. It isn't a matter of them not getting the hint.

A couple of the players have even spoken out against killing more enemies, but some of the more influential, team-leader players talked them out of taking a more non lethal approach. I'm worried that some of the pro-lethal players are just assuming I'd never actually put an enemy against then they couldn't beat by simple sword swinging so why bother worrying. This kind of metagaming is frustrating for me as a GM.

With all that said, after reading the forums suggestions, I do have a couple "ways out" up my sleeve. For instance, the party is also traveling with a friendly, but cowardly necromancer (it's a long story on that one). I could always let the necromancer escape and then have him drag the PC's half dead bodies back to town. Then resurrect then next game with a stat point or two (-1 to con, -1 to some other random stat) and a few hit points permanently missing. Also I could have half the town be destroyed and have this rival adventure group (who the party has an on again off again friendship/rivalry with) be the ones who eventually took down the demon. Heck, that might be worse than just death. Humiliation.

Also, I would never stands in the way if the party came up with something truly clever to defeat the demon. I just can't imagine what that would be at this point!

 

[amerigoV]