D&D 5E Keen Weapons in 5th Edition?

[Psikerlord#]

For expanding the crit ranges, other than the moonblade, the closest things that I've found are the Fighter (Champion)'s Improved and Superior Critical abilities. This lends itself to the idea that the system can support threat ranges of 18-20, but it's so powerful, it ought to be really rare.

Yeah I would suggest if you are going to introduce a keen weapon, I would use +0 bonus, similar to the flame tongue, and I'd make 19 or 20 crits only.

I would definintely not introduce such an item in a game where a PC is a chamption fighter however - you are would be giving away his best ability for free!

 

[Pascal Simard]

Personally, I don't think Keen translates too well. D&D5 is designed to have a static 5% crit rate, and since there are abilities that can trigger on crits, that might make it too powerful. (Great Weapon Fighting feat) ... Now, Keen generally means "Sharp" ... so rather then doubling damage output, it could allow one to roll for damage twice, and pick whichever value he prefers. So, a Keen Greataxe, would allow you to roll 2d12kh1 (2d12, keep the highest one). Basically, doubles the chances of your weapon doing greater damage. Which is similar to what a Crit is, without actually breaking anything.

 

[jgsugden]

While I understand folks hesitancy to increase the crit rate, I think we need to remember that the class build most criticized as underpowered, Champion, is one of the only sources of an expanded crit range.

In the hands of a Rogue it would be great... but rogues are underpowered in combat so no concern there.

Paladins get a lot out of Smiting post critical. As such, we should have some concern as a keen weapon would disproportionately benefit the strongest melee build. However, we can minimize that impact by making it a property that is isolated and thus may not be on par with weapons found at higher level.

Uncommon
Any slashing weapon
If the d20 roll for an attack is a 19 or 20 with this weapon, the attack is a critical hit.

 

[CapnZapp]

Actually (hi 2015!) I think that accomplishes pretty much the opposite of what playbalance has shown to be.

In other words, a keen weapon that increases the crit range by one for Champions only seems more appropriate... but I'm off back to 2017 now

 

[Kalshane]

I've handed out a couple weapons with an expanded crit range in my games, but they're incredibly rare and require attunement. (Both were rapiers designed with the idea to encourage the party rogue to get involved in melee more often.) No problems so far.

 

[Geeknamese]

I definitely think increasing critical threat range is definitely stepping on the toes of the Champion which is already hurting as a kind of dull class heh. Hexblade in UA with its curse steps on the Champion's schtick as well.

I like low magic item games and preserving bounded accuracy so maybe it doesn't have to be such a powerful magic item? Perhaps no bonus to attack but has the ability to bypass resistances to physical attacks. Can't remember off the top of my head how many monsters have resistance to bludgeoning, piercing slashing damage. There are a few.


Sent from my iPhone using EN World

 

[Saeviomagy]

I definitely think increasing critical threat range is definitely stepping on the toes of the Champion which is already hurting as a kind of dull class heh. Hexblade in UA with its curse steps on the Champion's schtick as well.

Except it's really not, unless you have a champion AND some other kind of fighter in your game, and you give out precisely one magic item useable by fighters, and it's a weapon type that's perfect for the other fighter and it's vicious.

If you hand out multiple fighter type items, the champion should end up with them and not this weapon. If the weapon you hand out is otherwise sub-par, the champion is still ahead. If you don't have a second fighter, the champion isn't competing with anyone.

In short: don't screw one player with poor loot and nobody will feel screwed.

The game already has a weapon that grants +2d6 damage on every hit. Critting on a 19-20 pales in comparison, unless your crits are doing ~140 points of damage more than a normal hit. In which case this weapon isn't your problem.

In short - there's no problem at all introducing vicious weapons, except for the fact that they are really, really boring.

 

[n0nym]

I've given "Keen" weapons (increased critical threat range) in my games and I've had one as a player, and it doesn't seem to be a major issue... Even though I was a Fighter/Rogue abusing Shield Master for Advantage, the GWM Barbarian still outdamaged me most of the time.

After all, even if the weapon did awesome damage (which it does not, as @Saeviomagy pointed out), it's a MAGIC item, it's *supposed* to feel awesome. Magic items that feel mundane suck.

Lastly, I don't think anyone mentionned the Sword of Sharpness in the DMG, which is basically how 5th edition does "Keen" weapons.

 

[ccooke]

So this idea came into my head for a "Keen" weapon - that is, a slightly-sentient weapon that is extremely keen on doing lots of damage to someone:

Weapon (any weapon that does slashing damage), rare, requires attunement

This weapon was made to cut things and it is extremely eager to do so. It possesses a rudimentary awareness honed to a cutting edge. When you make an attack roll with this weapon and you roll a natural 1, the weapon's instincts take over. Make a Charisma saving throw, DC 10. If you succeed, you are able to guide the weapon to make a critical hit against your original target. On a failed save, the attack is redirected to you and hits.





I am (a little) sorry.

 

[woodja]

If you roll a nat one with any weapon there should be consequences.

In our last session, my sword of sharpness had one. The DM rolled for who it would hit, just happened to be our Ranger standing well away from combat, so it was as I swung the sword, the earth elemental knocked it out of my hand and it hammered home in the ranger's shoulder, both damaging him and depriving me of my main weapon. Luckily for the ranger, I did not get a secondary crit to cause him to lose a limb.