D&D 5E Can Objects Be Hidden?

[Maxperson]

It specifically says planting an object on someone else. You need to hide the object when you're planting it, otherwise the other person would immediately notice the new object and your hand in their pocket. And once again, the example is obviously not intended to be limited to just people.

That's not true. You do not need to hide it. They simply have to be unaware of it. There's a difference.

If you open a drawer and throw a quarter inside, it is not hidden even when the drawer is closed and the quarter is out of sight. However, if you open the drawer and lift up some things to hide the quarter beneath them, THEN it's hidden in the drawer. The same goes for planting an object. It's not hidden. They just aren't aware of it.

And you are wrong, it is intended to be just people, which is why it specifies people. If it were meant for other uses, they would have said so. You can use it for other things, but that's a house rule.

 

[Seramus]

And you are wrong, it is intended to be just people, which is why it specifies people. If it were meant for other uses, they would have said so. You can use it for other things, but that's a house rule.

It's perfectly clear to me that the provided examples represent a spectrum that isn't supposed to be limited to people. You can run it however you want at your own table, but we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

 

[mrpopstar]

Of course, skills are always broad umbrella terms and an individual DM might decide that Stealth, Sleight of Hand, or some kind of attribute roll might be most appropriate for hiding objects. But what about you? Do you think objects can be Hidden?

The answer is straightforward...

The Dungeon Master describes the environment.
The players describe the actions they take to hide an object.
The Dungeon Master narrates the results of their actions.

If a character or monster attempts to find the hidden object, the DM decides which of the six abilities is relevant to the task at hand (see the "Finding a Hidden Object" sidebar on page 61 of the D&D Basic Rules) and the difficulty of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class.

...no?

Calling for a contest would be wholly inappropriate as efforts are not being directly opposed, so there is no need to consider things like Stealth, Sleight of Hand, etc.

 

[Gradine]

The answer is straightforward...

The Dungeon Master describes the environment.
The players describe the actions they take to hide an object.
The Dungeon Master narrates the results of their actions.

If a character or monster attempts to find the hidden object, the DM decides which of the six abilities is relevant to the task at hand (see the "Finding a Hidden Object" sidebar on page 61 of the D&D Basic Rules) and the difficulty of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class.

...no?

Calling for a contest would be wholly inappropriate as efforts are not being directly opposed, so there is no need to consider things like Stealth, Sleight of Hand, etc.

This is primarily correct; I think the question boils down to "is there anything the PC can do to impact the NPC's search check Difficulty Class". Which seems reasonable enough, considering it's an action taken by the PC. Rather than fiddle with DC's, I'd probably have the player roll at a specific DC that, if successful, would impose disadvantage to the NPC's search check. But there's a host of different contexts to consider that would make creating a hard and fast rule about this type of interaction foolish at best. As I've pointed out several times before, 3.X didn't even try to codify this.

 

[mrpopstar]

This is primarily correct; I think the question boils down to "is there anything the PC can do to impact the NPC's search check Difficulty Class". Which seems reasonable enough, considering it's an action taken by the PC. Rather than fiddle with DC's, I'd probably have the player roll at a specific DC that, if successful, would impose disadvantage to the NPC's search check. But there's a host of different contexts to consider that would make creating a hard and fast rule about this type of interaction foolish at best. As I've pointed out several times before, 3.X didn't even try to codify this.

Advantage and disadvantage are special situations that reflect the positive or negative circumstances surrounding a d20 roll.

The action taken to hide an object last night should not modify the ability check used to find the hidden object this morning.

 

[Gradine]

Advantage and disadvantage are special situations that reflect the positive or negative circumstances surrounding a d20 roll.

The action taken to hide an object last night should not modify the ability check used to find the hidden object this morning.

Ah, but "being especially well hidden" is a circumstance that, until the object is moved, permanent, and applies just as much at the moment of its hiding as it does to the moment of its finding. And how well the object is hidden is absolutely a factor of the hider's (in this case the PC's) own talents and actions.

I'm not advocating anything as a hard and fast rule; different rulings will make more or less sense at different tables or in different contexts. I could see asynchronous opposed rolls making sense in this context; I could also see the DM simply deciding how, when and by whom the object is found in the course of developing the world and the story within the campaign. I could also see tables and players and/or DMs who would be angrily opposed to either of those choices.

This is why, I believe, WotC simplified Ability Checks in 5e, and set them up so individual DMs would have to decide in the moment the best way to adjudicate the system. Which I happen to think is to the game's benefit.

 

[mrpopstar]

Ah, but "being especially well hidden" is a circumstance that, until the object is moved, permanent, and applies just as much at the moment of its hiding as it does to the moment of its finding. And how well the object is hidden is absolutely a factor of the hider's (in this case the PC's) own talents and actions.

How well the object is hidden is a function of the narrative.

How difficult the object is to find is a function of the DM deciding which of the six abilities is relevant to the task at hand and the difficulty of the task, represented by a Difficulty Class.

I'm not advocating anything as a hard and fast rule; different rulings will make more or less sense at different tables or in different contexts. I could see asynchronous opposed rolls making sense in this context; I could also see the DM simply deciding how, when and by whom the object is found in the course of developing the world and the story within the campaign. I could also see tables and players and/or DMs who would be angrily opposed to either of those choices.

I'm merely advocating in favor of the guidance provided by the rules.

This is why, I believe, WotC simplified Ability Checks in 5e, and set them up so individual DMs would have to decide in the moment the best way to adjudicate the system. Which I happen to think is to the game's benefit.

I believe that ability checks were simplified so that adjudication would be simple, not so that adjudication would become more intricate and/or less reliable DM-to-DM.

 

[Gradine]

How well the object is hidden is a function of the narrative.

You might choose to rule that way, but that's certainly not the only adjudication supported by the rules.

Also...

the DM deciding

not so that adjudication would become... less reliable DM-to-DM.

Yeah... these are two ideas that fundamentally at war with one another. Greater DM empowerment to adjudicate actions as they see fit necessarily means less consistent rulings between tables. Which is by design. And, I happen to believe, a very good thing.

Don't get me wrong, but new way of doing ability checks do also make adjudication overall much simpler, but it also makes it much, much more flexible as a result.

As to the "guidance provided by the rules" comment, here's the SRD's take on advantage:

The GM can also decide that circumstances influence a roll in one direction or the other and grant advantage or impose disadvantage as a result.

Which is exceptionally vague and broad but not only does not exclude the example I provided but seems to explicitly include it.

 

[mrpopstar]

You might choose to rule that way, but that's certainly not the only adjudication supported by the rules.

The rules are clear as to when and where advantage or disadvantage apply, as well as how the DM is expected to handle ability checks.

Yeah... these are two ideas that fundamentally at war with one another. Greater DM empowerment to adjudicate actions as they see fit necessarily means less consistent rulings between tables. Which is by design. And, I happen to believe, a very good thing.

DM empowerment is good.
Rules that are written in such a way as to invite the DM's judgement are also good.

Empowerment and judgement are not emphasized in this instance, where the rules are clear.

Don't get me wrong, but new way of doing ability checks do also make adjudication overall much simpler, but it also makes it much, much more flexible as a result.

I'm not understanding how simplicity and/or flexibility provide a foundation for your misunderstanding.

As to the "guidance provided by the rules" comment, here's the SRD's take on advantage:


Which is exceptionally vague and broad but not only does not exclude the example I provided but seems to explicitly include it.

We are in disagreement that how well an object is hidden is a circumstance that influences a roll in one direction or the other.

Advantage or disadvantage reflect the positive or negative circumstances surrounding a d20 roll. How well an object was hidden is not a circumstance that impacts an ability check.

--

I've expressed myself in this thread, and presented the rules as both written and intended. You are--of course--free to do as you see fit at your own table.

 

[Seramus]

Advantage or disadvantage reflect the positive or negative circumstances surrounding a d20 roll. How well an object was hidden is not a circumstance that impacts an ability check.

I can easily see a situation where someone hid an item in a potted plant, and then moved other plants in front of that one to create a disadvantage for future searchers.