D&D 5E The Warrior

[Uchawi]

But is, like 'Fighter is about movement,' not mechanically supported in any edition.
Though, there were specific fighter builds in 3e & 4e that could do quite a bit of dancing around, not to mention mounted combat builds... :shrug:

But, I get that your experiences were quite specific in that regard.

Martial characters suffer in general without detailed movement, which is just an extension of detailed melee combat.

 

[Tony Vargas]

But the execution of whatever movement mechanic [MENTION=6801286]Imaculata[/MENTION] was imagining would need to be meaningfully differentiated from the Rogue class in a way that feels "fighter-y."...
I thought about this one a bit further. Another way of rephrasing this in a way that makes sense with 5e rules is "you can move through enemy spaces." That accommodates both the fiction you're aiming for as well as something like "the knight dashes left and right under the dragons legs to attack its wing" or even "the gladiator meets shields with the orc, abruptly spinning around it to slash his scimitar at the nape of its neck."

Nod. An easy to understand, occasionally useful, mechanical effect left open to different visualizations. It could use an Athletics or Acrobatics check, too, allowing it to work for either the knight/gladiator/whatever or the swashbuckler type.

I feel like this idea edges into "defining away creativity" territory. Those sorts of wild ideas – "I surf down the stairs on my shield / the orc" – are best left up to improvisation or narration in play. Trying to codify such unique things specifically can lead to bloat.

The above speaks to that, though. It helps to have a mechanic to hang the improv on.

And some of it feels like it's crossing the DM's side of the screen, so to speak.

Certainly, the capabilities of the PC have a foundation on the player's side of the screen - choosing (or at least arranging) abilities scores, race, background, class, feats and, of course, actions.

"Swinging by a chandelier, rope, vine to cross a room." – This is the kind of thing where I think any character could potentially do this, so there's actual harm done by codifying it, because it sets precedent for "only characters of X class/subclass/type can swing by chandelier, rope, or vine to cross a room."

Yep, it would suck to set a precedent that a fighter could do actually something. ;P

 

[Imaculata]

I thought about this one a bit further. Another way of rephrasing this in a way that makes sense with 5e rules is "you can move through enemy spaces." That accommodates both the fiction you're aiming for as well as something like "the knight dashes left and right under the dragons legs to attack its wing" or even "the gladiator meets shields with the orc, abruptly spinning around it to slash his scimitar at the nape of its neck."

That would be a very powerful ability in certain situations.

Ways it might upgrade could be moving through multiple enemies in a turn, mitigating opportunity attacks when moving through enemies (possibly stepping on toes of Mobile feat), or getting pot-shots against an enemy he moves through.

Does that feel like it supports multiple concepts of what a fighter is?

I love it. It doesn't give the fighter too much mobility that would make the class venture too much into the Rogue's domain, as you said. And yet I can totally visualize it as something a fighter would do. It also seems like an ability that would encourage different tactics, which is always interesting from a purely mechanical point of view.

I feel like this idea edges into "defining away creativity" territory. Those sorts of wild ideas – "I surf down the stairs on my shield / the orc" – are best left up to improvisation or narration in play. Trying to codify such unique things specifically can lead to bloat.

Right you are.

And some of it feels like it's crossing the DM's side of the screen, so to speak. For example, "taking a stab from an armed enemy on purpose, in order to grab hold of his weapon and put the enemy in a grapple" – that sounds like the kind of thing that a DM might offer spur of the moment (or a player might cajole their DM to agree to). A lot of this "risk for reward" stuff, like the plunging attack example, I've seen handled at the table level; I think the closest the class design comes to incorporating it is the Barbarian's Reckless Attack...

I can see that as well.

...What I could see working is having Martial Alacrity (which allows Reaction to be used when you're attacked) be expanded for, say, the Bravo or Gladiatorsubclass, so that you can use Martial Alacrity to perform a Grapple once per enemy per short rest. Something along those lines. Similar to how the Thief's Fast Hands expands the Rogue's Cunning Action.

That could work. Simple to understand, and without too many bloated rules.

"Diving in front of an ally that takes damage, to take the damage for them, even if it is not your turn." – I've incorporated something very similar to this for the Destined Hero subclass.

Nice!

"Swinging by a chandelier, rope, vine to cross a room." – This is the kind of thing where I think any character could potentially do this, so there's actual harm done by codifying it, because it sets precedent for "only characters of X class/subclass/type can swing by chandelier, rope, or vine to cross a room."

That is a good point, which I had not considered yet. And I guess it also violates those previous two rules that you mentioned: Crossing the DM's side of the screen and defining away creativity.

 

[Quickleaf]

I love it. It doesn't give the fighter too much mobility that would make the class venture too much into the Rogue's domain, as you said. And yet I can totally visualize it as something a fighter would do. It also seems like an ability that would encourage different tactics, which is always interesting from a purely mechanical point of view.

OK, cool, thanks for inspiring the idea! I'll include it the class somewhere.

 

[Quickleaf]

Just brushed up on the rules...

PHB 190: The space of another creature, whether hostile or not, also counts as difficult terrain.

PHB 191:You can move through a nonhostile creature’s space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature’s space is difficult terrain for you. Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.

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I'm thinking something like this...

[SECTION]Martial Alacrity. Starting at 2nd level, you can move through the spaces of hostile creatures, regardless of their size. Doing so acts as difficult terrain as normal, and you can’t end your turn in a creature’s space.
Additionally, you can use your Reaction when you roll initiative (as long as you are not surprised), roll a saving throw, or an attack hits or misses you. You can use this Reaction to interact with an object or feature of the environment; for example, you could stow your sword and draw your bow, open or close a door, throw an unconscious ally over your shoulder, hold open a portcullis, withdraw a potion from your backpack, remove a torch from a sconce, etc.[/SECTION]

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Just brushed up on the rules...

PHB 190: The space of another creature, whether hostile or not, also counts as difficult terrain.

PHB 191:You can move through a nonhostile creature’s space. In contrast, you can move through a hostile creature's space only if the creature is at least two sizes larger or smaller than you. Remember that another creature’s space is difficult terrain for you. Whether a creature is a friend or an enemy, you can’t willingly end your move in its space.

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I'm thinking something like this...

[SECTION]Martial Alacrity. Starting at 2nd level, you can move through the spaces of hostile creatures, regardless of their size. Doing so acts as difficult terrain as normal, and you can’t end your turn in a creature’s space.
Additionally, you can use your Reaction when you roll initiative (as long as you are not surprised), roll a saving throw, or an attack hits or misses you. You can use this Reaction to interact with an object or feature of the environment; for example, you could stow your sword and draw your bow, open or close a door, throw an unconscious ally over your shoulder, hold open a portcullis, withdraw a potion from your backpack, remove a torch from a sconce, etc.[/SECTION]

This is weird for me, in possibly a subjective way. "Moving through hostile creatures", in D&D, has traditionally coded sneaky, slippery rogue type characters, especially halflings.

 

[Quickleaf]

This is weird for me, in possibly a subjective way. "Moving through hostile creatures", in D&D, has traditionally coded sneaky, slippery rogue type characters, especially halflings.

Ah, that's exactly the sort of feedback I'm looking for. Thank you! I *think* you mean the Underfoot feat from 4th edition?

 

[TheCosmicKid]

Ah, that's exactly the sort of feedback I'm looking for. Thank you! I *think* you mean the Underfoot feat from 4th edition?

There's a lot more than that. Take another look at the base halfling abilities in 5E.

 

[Quickleaf]

There's a lot more than that. Take another look at the base halfling abilities in 5E.

Gotcha.

Halfling Nimbleness: You can move through the space of any creature that is of a size larger than yours.

Yeah, wouldn't want to step on that. That makes a halfling uniquely useful against, say, an ogre blocking a 10-ft wide passage. While other characters would have to push the ogre or use the Tumble action (from DMG), the halfling can slip right under its legs.

 

[cbwjm]

Can you move through a prone creatures space? Perhaps when the fighter moves they can attempt a free knockdown or shove against a single creature in their path once during their turn. You could make this a bonus action if you'd like to attach a resource to it.