D&D 5E Thoughts on this article about Black Culture & the D&D team dropping the ball?

[guachi]

3. "Racesplaining", This is hilarious (in a not funny but do you realize the irony way) to me because it's basically when the white males in a group want to tell you how you as a people should or shouldn't group yourselves... i.e. blacks in america aren't all one community or group...people of color refers to so many disparate groups that it's meaning less. Like really do you hear yourself, once again you're trying to exert control and define a people you aren't even a member of.

This is so shockingly racist I can't believe you posted it. You aren't actually engaging the arguments made. Instead, you are dismissing them out of hand simply because they are being made by white males. The only two words to describe such a train of thought are "racist" and "sexist".

The only one trying to exert control is you by telling white men to shut up for being white men.

 

[Imaro]

This is so shockingly racist I can't believe you posted it. You aren't actually engaging the arguments made. Instead, you are dismissing them out of hand simply because they are being made by white males. The only two words to describe such a train of thought are "racist" and "sexist".

The only one trying to exert control is you by telling white men to shut up for being white men.

I was unaware "being white men" included the right to determine how other races & sexes should classify themselves as well as whether that classification is valid or not... To call the denouncement of that both sexist and racist is not only ironic (since honestly white males have actually had, and still do to a great extent, the power to do that to other people) but also an example of some real "privilege" at work.

 

[Alexemplar]

We have to be careful. Personally, I think it's damn good. The designers did their homework.

But Nyambe is not a D&D product in any way. It is an "alternate history" take on Africa in a 17th century Earth analog in which magic exists. As a result, it resembles the Africa that had already experienced the incursion of European, Arabic and other forces, so it wouldn't make a particularly good drop in for a typical D&D campaign setting.

Major Muslim influence in North/West Africa started as early as the 11th century. Southern Asian trading with East Africa is even older, dating back to before the 1st century. The nature of cultural influence never seemed to reach the state it does in Nyambe though. Finally, the Nothern influence is very different compared to what it was in the 17th century between Europe and West Africa both in nature and scope.

Nyambe is a mish-mash of different time periods, cultures and myths derived from Africa that are designed more to facilitate adventure and integration into a larger fantasy world as opposed to simply being an alternate history Africa that just happens to involve magic. It’s not historically accurate at all and doesn’t aim to be.

 

[DeJoker]

This is so shockingly racist I can't believe you posted it. You aren't actually engaging the arguments made. Instead, you are dismissing them out of hand simply because they are being made by white males. The only two words to describe such a train of thought are "racist" and "sexist".

The only one trying to exert control is you by telling white men to shut up for being white men.

I cannot say I can agree with your stance on this because it actually is an issue that exists and it is basically disrespectful in nature and I look at this as being more someone say please stop being disrespectful in perhaps not the most respectful manner and that might be due to the medium or that individuals inability to communicate in a nicer manner (which I am guilty of from time to time so fully understand that so I tend to look past that and at the context of the message as a whole).

I mean how would you feel (assuming you are Caucasian because I am confident that you are not actually white in color) if another race segment of society basically lumped you all together into one big category and stereo-typed you -- oh wait that is already happening *sigh* Yes racism exists everywhere and is done by every race to other races and sometimes to their own. The issue is something that almost seems to transcend time it goes that far back. Then there is the ignorant racism where someone is not intending to be racist but inadvertently (because the do not know or do not think seriously about first) make a racist comment or take a racist point of view.

Again I ask is anyone aware of the 4 open common aspects of racism that have existed in D&D from close to the beginning and still exist within it as of today? More importantly does anyone even care that it exists so blatantly and yet many do not even seem to notice it? So far I have not heard from anyone here which may mean this group is oblivious to it as well.

 

[Wiseblood]

Again I ask is anyone aware of the 4 open common aspects of racism that have existed in D&D from close to the beginning and still exist within it as of today? More importantly does anyone even care that it exists so blatantly and yet many do not even seem to notice it? So far I have not heard from anyone here which may mean this group is oblivious to it as well.

I am not aware of the 4 open common aspects of racism that have existed in D&D from close to the beginning and still exist today. (No irony to the statement. No sarcasm either) Please explain what you mean and show examples.

 

[DeJoker]

I am not aware of the 4 open common aspects of racism that have existed in D&D from close to the beginning and still exist today. (No irony to the statement. No sarcasm either) Please explain what you mean and show examples.

Okay it is basically common knowledge that the world has different races and that we refer to 4 of these races via derogatory terms (albeit some a bit arguable but why do it even it is only possible) those names being Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Half-Ling and Dwarf. Now the first to are definitely 100% human based derogatory terms for someone that is a "Half-Breed" also a derogatory term. Further it is obvious that they are human derogatory terms because they denote the race as being half-not human while an Orc or an Elf would most likely refer to their respective half-race derogatorily as Half-Human. That is perhaps the most blatant. The next Half-ling is that really a race name or is it a derogatory term referencing the races diminutive height -- I am going with 75% that this is a derogatory term as D&D actually at one time called the race Hin. It is perhaps commonly accepted because that is what J. R. Tolkien called them but that does not necessarily mean that he did not inadvertently create a racist term. The last which I am on the fence a bit more about is Dwarf I call this one 50% racist as the Norse had that term and they were highly respected so not a derogatory term in their eyes but for nearly every other race it was a reference to a group of humans by a name that denoted they were different and less. Then again J.R. Tolkien referred to them as such. Now before anyone gets their knickers in a bunch I am not saying this was done overtly on purpose to me it is just another case for that laziness that I spoke about before and J.R. Tolkien was simply a man of his time and we all know -- times the are a changin'.

Personally I do not have any of those 4 seemingly derogatory names as the names for those races mine (in order stated above) Urug, fFolk, Hin, and Khuzdul -- now my world does have the derogatory terms but you use that for one of these races be prepared to be corrected and/or shunned for being a bigot.

 

[lkj]

We have to be careful. Personally, I think it's damn good. The designers did their homework.

But Nyambe is not a D&D product in any way. It is an "alternate history" take on Africa in a 17th century Earth analog in which magic exists. As a result, it resembles the Africa that had already experienced the incursion of European, Arabic and other forces, so it wouldn't make a particularly good drop in for a typical D&D campaign setting.

Huh. My memory of Nyambe was that is was very much intended as a D&D setting, with orc tribes (with a much different flavor) and the rest. And I'd even intended to drop it in to my game. But I'll admit it has been a very long time since I looked at it. I just remember really liking what they had done.

AD

 

[Wiseblood]

Okay it is basically common knowledge that the world has different races and that we refer to 4 of these races via derogatory terms (albeit some a bit arguable but why do it even it is only possible) those names being Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Half-Ling and Dwarf. Now the first to are definitely 100% human based derogatory terms for someone that is a "Half-Breed" also a derogatory term. Further it is obvious that they are human derogatory terms because they denote the race as being half-not human while an Orc or an Elf would most likely refer to their respective half-race derogatorily as Half-Human. That is perhaps the most blatant. The next Half-ling is that really a race name or is it a derogatory term referencing the races diminutive height -- I am going with 75% that this is a derogatory term as D&D actually at one time called the race Hin. It is perhaps commonly accepted because that is what J. R. Tolkien called them but that does not necessarily mean that he did not inadvertently create a racist term. The last which I am on the fence a bit more about is Dwarf I call this one 50% racist as the Norse had that term and they were highly respected so not a derogatory term in their eyes but for nearly every other race it was a reference to a group of humans by a name that denoted they were different and less. Then again J.R. Tolkien referred to them as such. Now before anyone gets their knickers in a bunch I am not saying this was done overtly on purpose to me it is just another case for that laziness that I spoke about before and J.R. Tolkien was simply a man of his time and we all know -- times the are a changin'.

Personally I do not have any of those 4 seemingly derogatory names as the names for those races mine (in order stated above) Urug, fFolk, Hin, and Khuzdul -- now my world does have the derogatory terms but you use that for one of these races be prepared to be corrected and/or shunned for being a bigot.

Oh I see, I thought you meant real world racism.
I would point out that calling half-elf or half-orc a different name doesn't negate the deragotory connotation. In the fantasy fiction I have read. Elves look down on humans and so do Orcs implying that orc-human or elf-human heritage sets these apart from both parent cultures. Meaning a half-elf in the eyes of an elf would be Elf-. Whereas the half-orc might be viewed as orc+/- but usually orc-.
A truly derogatory term would be half-man.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Okay it is basically common knowledge that the world has different races and that we refer to 4 of these races via derogatory terms (albeit some a bit arguable but why do it even it is only possible) those names being Half-Orc, Half-Elf, Half-Ling and Dwarf. Now the first to are definitely 100% human based derogatory terms for someone that is a "Half-Breed" also a derogatory term. Further it is obvious that they are human derogatory terms because they denote the race as being half-not human while an Orc or an Elf would most likely refer to their respective half-race derogatorily as Half-Human. That is perhaps the most blatant. The next Half-ling is that really a race name or is it a derogatory term referencing the races diminutive height -- I am going with 75% that this is a derogatory term as D&D actually at one time called the race Hin. It is perhaps commonly accepted because that is what J. R. Tolkien called them but that does not necessarily mean that he did not inadvertently create a racist term. The last which I am on the fence a bit more about is Dwarf I call this one 50% racist as the Norse had that term and they were highly respected so not a derogatory term in their eyes but for nearly every other race it was a reference to a group of humans by a name that denoted they were different and less. Then again J.R. Tolkien referred to them as such. Now before anyone gets their knickers in a bunch I am not saying this was done overtly on purpose to me it is just another case for that laziness that I spoke about before and J.R. Tolkien was simply a man of his time and we all know -- times the are a changin'.

Personally I do not have any of those 4 seemingly derogatory names as the names for those races mine (in order stated above) Urug, fFolk, Hin, and Khuzdul -- now my world does have the derogatory terms but you use that for one of these races be prepared to be corrected and/or shunned for being a bigot.

Oh, you're talking racism as simulated in the game, not the real issue of the article that kicked off this thread.

Well, I'll give you Half-Elf & Half-Orc, but that's it.

"Halfling" arose for legal reasons. Gary Gygax wasn't in JRRT's league as a linguist, but he wasn't a slouch. According to some sources, "halfling" comes from similar sources as JRRT's "hobbit". GG warped the Scots word hauflin or the German surname "Helbing", meaning an awkward rustic teenager, who is neither man nor boy, and so half of both. Another word for halfling is hobbledehoy or hobby. (See what JRRT did there?)

Dwarf? That's straight out of myth & legend.