D&D 5E Thoughts on this article about Black Culture & the D&D team dropping the ball?

[Kobold Boots]

You've been here for 10 years, and you decided today was the day to die on this hill and post this rant opposing inclusivity on my website? Not acceptable.

I'd say "please review the rules", but there's not much point, because I'm showing you the door. This showed an appalling lack of character.

Everybody else, please do not reply to shoak1; he can't respond.

Sorry, just saw this.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

Can you define 'those experiences' and 'the stereotypes' in any way that doesn't refer to skin color? Because it seems you've thrown up a wall of words that comes out to the same place. For instance, a respected scholar on sub-Saharan cultures wouldn't meet your criteria if they'd not suffered the stereotypes or experiences you're using to define who should be talking.

Have we completely discarded the marketplace of ideas, and moved to only those with the correct pedigree of experience should be sought for input? Pedigrees we're using skin color as a marker for?

Again, there's definite systemic and overt racism left in the US. But retreating into a mindset where deference is placed on skin color for who has preference of comment is going in the wrong direction.

Well following discourse lately in the US, and other western nations, group identity seems to determine everything now. Where you are on the marginalization pyramid is huge. This group needs to shut up, this group needs to check their privilege, etc. The marketplace of ideas seems like a problematic idea in itself so often these days. Some ideas are cloaked in privilege after all. Some ideas ARE violence, etc.

Back to the topic, however people approach this is up to them, I'm not worried about that. I did bring this topic and thread up, admittedly in a kind of humorous way, and nobody cares much beyond is it going to be fun. We did start joking creating the Social Justice Warrior PC class though. I game with mostly hard liberals and a couple SJW types and I'm sure our game would still be triggering to some people not at the table, but oh well. I don't have enough time left to get too worried about that. Hope everyone has fun with it, i'm just looking forward to finally playing 5e for the first time.

 

[lowkey13]

*Deleted by user*

 

[Greg Benage]

Can you define 'those experiences' and 'the stereotypes' in any way that doesn't refer to skin color? Because it seems you've thrown up a wall of words that comes out to the same place. For instance, a respected scholar on sub-Saharan cultures wouldn't meet your criteria if they'd not suffered the stereotypes or experiences you're using to define who should be talking.

No, the disparate experiences and impacts of these stereotypes obviously have their origins in skin color and our racialized culture. But it's the experiences themselves that should inform the work. "Skin color" doesn't have any insights.

Expertise might also have helped, but it shouldn't replace these voices. The work could be better informed from the perspective of cultural anthropology, for example, and still present stereotypes and present them in a way that is harmful. These shouldn't be mutually exclusive.

Have we completely discarded the marketplace of ideas, and moved to only those with the correct pedigree of experience should be sought for input? Pedigrees we're using skin color as a marker for?

Again, there's definite systemic and overt racism left in the US. But retreating into a mindset where deference is placed on skin color for who has preference of comment is going in the wrong direction.

I like ideas. I'm all for expertise. I'm also for listening to the voices of marginalized groups and making every effort to incorporate their experiences and insights into the work. Why not both?

 

[Kobold Boots]

KB,

I don't think I can explain it any better that I just did (or, at the least, I can't do it in fewer words). But when you write something that is demonstrably untrue and state that the statement isn't inaccurate, that's problematic. Moreso because your statement (like my analogy with Mr. Simpson) wasn't sufficiently close to the truth to make your point, but was actively misleading for the premise offered; saying that a precursor organization was "shut down for perpetuating slander[,]" implies that the precursor organization had issues with the truth/falsity of their work; this is different that saying, "A precursor organization was sold due to a successful and nearly unprecedented effort by a billionaire to bankroll litigation against them that resulted in a bizarre verdict, against a prior ruling by the appellate court on a key issue, that had nothing to do with truth or falsity of the piece but about the propriety of publishing Mr. Hogan's intercourse video; unfortunately, none of these issues could ever be explored because of the intervening settlement that mooted the appeal."

It was necessary for me to correct that because (1) your point wasn't valid relative to the discussion we're having, and (2) this type of pernicious misinformation is precisely how bad policy gets promoted (see also, McDonald's hot coffee and tort reform).

I could have made a more general post about your "clickbait," but I assume that most people understand that D&D posts on Kotaku, no matter how saucy, aren't clickbaity. That's not hearsay, that's res ipsa.

Take care.

Hi Lowkey -

I get why you replied and I agree with your points.

What you may not have understood because I may not have said it is:

1. The conversation I was having with Alex is the only conversation I'm referring to.
2. The "we" in your conversation isn't something I care about because I was directly conversing with Alex back and forth. You aren't part of "we".
3. If I'm wrong, I'm fine with it.

Perhaps he and I should have taken it to PM.

KB

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Lots of good conversation, but The Mgmt. has decided it's getting too heated in here. Instead of leaving the thread open and moderating a bunch of posts (past & future), I've been asked to shut it down.

Have a good day!