D&D 5E First literary concept of the "Adventuring Party"?

[tardigrade]

I feel various Norse myths should qualify, even if the adventuring party is often only 2 people. For example the legend of Útgarða-Loki involves Loki and Thor and their servants Þjálfi and Röskva and a series of challenges based around the specific skills of each.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

The Twelve Apostles, New Testament, The Bible

I'd consider the apostles as minions, not party members.

 

[EvanNave55]

Tales of groups of individuals with varying skills going on adventures is older that written history itself every civilization or group of people have tales and folklore along those lines. The first instances could very well relate to stories that went along with Neanderthals' drawings on cave walls.

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[tardigrade]

Tales of groups of individuals with varying skills going on adventures is older that written history itself every civilization or group of people have tales and folklore along those lines. The first instances could very well relate to stories that went along with Neanderthals' drawings on cave walls.

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Can you back that up with some examples? When I read the question I initially assumed there would be loads too, but if the essential elements are taken as:
- a group of people
- aspiring to be heroes but initially unknown
- exceptional and complementary skills

...then there aren't as many as you'd think. My own Norse example (up there ^ somewhere) actually falls down completely on #2 now I think about it (by any standard, Loki and Thor were already famous) and barely passes #1.

The first example I thought of was actually 'the fool of the world and the flying ship', but as far as I can tell that's mid/late C19th, so too late to be worth mentioning. We're probably missing loads, so any more examples would be welcome.

 

[tardigrade]

This is actually exactly the sort of question that's well-suited to a Stack Exchange site (probably scifi.SE, although rpg.SE might also work). Do you mind if I repost it?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Can you back that up with some examples? When I read the question I initially assumed there would be loads too, but if the essential elements are taken as:
- a group of people
- aspiring to be heroes but initially unknown
- exceptional and complementary skills

...then there aren't as many as you'd think. My own Norse example (up there ^ somewhere) actually falls down completely on #2 now I think about it (by any standard, Loki and Thor were already famous) and barely passes #1.

The first example I thought of was actually 'the fool of the world and the flying ship', but as far as I can tell that's mid/late C19th, so too late to be worth mentioning. We're probably missing loads, so any more examples would be welcome.

Yeah, the criteria (meant to distinguish between most of the other stories out there) are what we think of a typical fantasy adventuring party:

Intellectual who avoids physical combat mostly. The magic user or scientist for example.
The warrior, who is there for security, protection, and/or is the one who shines when the fighting starts
The rogue, who is the scout, sneaky guy, does the less honorable dirty work, etc
All are on an adventure to find riches, gain glory, or exploration.


With that criteria, it pretty much eliminates the apostles, or cavemen, or even the three musketeers (since they had largely overlapping skills, it was their personalities that set them apart).

 

[Parmandur]

Yeah, the criteria (meant to distinguish between most of the other stories out there) are what we think of a typical fantasy adventuring party:

Intellectual who avoids physical combat mostly. The magic user or scientist for example.
The warrior, who is there for security, protection, and/or is the one who shines when the fighting starts
The rogue, who is the scout, sneaky guy, does the less honorable dirty work, etc
All are on an adventure to find riches, gain glory, or exploration.


With that criteria, it pretty much eliminates the apostles, or cavemen, or even the three musketeers (since they had largely overlapping skills, it was their personalities that set them apart).

It's a common enough phenomenon in scientific or mercentile expeditions, or military units. The wargaming culture and roots, combined with the fantasy elements, are genuinely new in D&D in that regard. Fantasy heroes tended to be lone wolf super beings, not team players.

 

[MostlyHarmless42]

You also must take into account whether you are considering strictly literary works, or fiction or nonfiction al works. Much of the early tales of folklore, mythology, or legends of various cultures were *NOT* written, and we're therefore not considered literary works. Even many tales like Cinderella were originally oral and not written down until MUCH later, after many cultures developed their own version as the tale spread or was adapted to incorporate other local varient of the same basic tale.

To complicate things further, many "original" tales such as classical Greek works are debated as to if they are even the original versions. The Iliad and the Odyssey by Homer are good examples of this where we frankly have no idea if his telling is the original work or not, and many other original tales from then often centered on one central hero (who often had a major flaw) rather than a party. Sure he often had help, but typically this help was presented in a way of him conquering or tricking others into helping. Medea helped Jason by betraying her father after he seduced her (albeit the subsequent literary play Medea presents a very different take on this event). Sigurd in Norse tales is considered one of the first dragon slaying tales, but even in that he had very little of a "party". This is to say nothing of the fact that most know nothing of classical Chinese, Korean, or Japanese mythology, or African folk tales, both of which go back FAR further than most realize, just that in the case of the Africans there is very little written work, and western history classes tend to paint Greece as the "origin" of human culture (Egypt, and places in South America came first, and China around the same time period).

TDLR: this is a difficult question to answer, because you need to clarify if you are strictly talking written stories or if you count oral tales/myths/legends, and what you classify as a "party" because many early works were deliberately down in a way to highlight one particular character or hero rather than a group of people working together.

 

[Guest 6801328]

TDLR: this is a difficult question to answer, because you need to clarify if you are strictly talking written stories or if you count oral tales/myths/legends, and what you classify as a "party" because many early works were deliberately down in a way to highlight one particular character or hero rather than a group of people working together.

I haven't participated in this thread for exactly this reason. The target is too poorly defined. I started trying to put together some criteria, and somehow this notion that it's not all about a central character needs to be part of it. Also that the group is a group because of the need for diverse skills, not just because they are already a unit/family/Round Table/etc. For example, the Lion, Witch, and the Wardrobe precedes LoTR, but that "adventuring party" ends up together by chance and because they are related, not because they band together in order to combine their skills.

I would even posit that The Hobbit doesn't qualify for a few reasons: that story is really about Bilbo, and besides his job as "burglar" none of the Dwarves seem to be included because of particular skills. (Balin is the best lookout, and Fili and Kili are the best firestarters, but there's no suggestion that this is why they were invited.)

 

[Kobold Stew]

By adventuring party, I mean a group of would-be heroes with unique skill sets working together to embark on an adventure. The intellectual (scientist/wizard), the warrior (fighter/soldier), and the scoundrel (thief/scout)

I want to say the Greek stories are probably the first, with Jason (and Madea and the rest of his crew--fighters/magic users/thieves as a group). ...
I'm assuming I'm missing something.

Jason and the Argonauts is your answer -- The Argonautica, written by Apollonius of Rhodes in the 3rd c. BC, fits your definition perfectly. A group of amateurs banding together on a quest, each with different skills that emerge over the course of the adventure. They pick up new party members (Medea). It's even a joke for Apollonius that Jason brings very little to the party; it just happens to be told from his perspective. (Apollonius refers to Jason as amechanos, "without device" or "useless" more than once). The hero Heracles starts off on the adventure, and everyone wants him to lead, but he's too high level, and by the end of the first book (there are 4 books), he's left and off adventuring on his own. It would even be possible to assign individual argonauts to particular classes (e.g. Orpheus as the party bard).

There were earlier accounts of this adventure, but they don't survive; earlier versions of Jason present him older, already established (e.g. Euripides' tragedy, Medea).

As the question is framed, I think the examples earlier than this do not count -- we don't have a "party" in Homer (either Iliad or Odyssey); and while Gilgamesh and Enkidu go on an adventure together, they are more like Heracles; not an adventuring party. (There are lots of examples of this type -- two heroes fighting alongside one another). But for a proper party, Apollonius' Argonautica is the earliest model we have.