D&D 5E Xanathar's Elven Accuracy

[Horwath]

Also something that hasn't been mentioned is that eleven accuracy greatly increases your chance of a critical strike which for paladins and rogues can also greatly increase damage.

it's 14,3% chance.

27,1% for 3rd level champions, or 38,6% for 18th level champions.

 

[smbakeresq]

play how you want. But IMO. That's terrible. It at least takes some sting away if you tell me up front. But it's still terrible. I'm also sure you are in the extreme minority there so at least there's that to keep me smiling.

I don’t “allow” a lot of builds at my table.

I allow everything if you sit down and give me a write up in character and role play your transition from one class to another as we go along that’s great and fine and you can do it. A little effort and role play is needed. I want you to write it down away from the table because the player will then put thought into the build so it goes smoother from there at the table.

Sadly the response usually is “I can’t just switch? I want to do this cool combo.”

A request for few paragraphs in an email and a little role play at the table somehow cuts multi-classing in half, maybe more. The player that gets immersed in their PC gets to do more. Once players do this the get hooked and want to play more, a good thing.



As far as the advantage calculation the range is actually probably more narrow, a first level PC will have %30 to hit AC 20, which you never see at that level. From memory AC18 is about the highest I recall seeing at level 1, you would have %40 chance to hit that. With advantage you need to miss twice at a %60 chance to miss, that would happen %36 of the time. Therefore you hit chance went from %40 to %64, and that’s most likely the upper limit of advantage. Most times your chance to hit is much higher than %40, in the %55+ range.

It’s set up that way, hitting is fun, missing isn’t , and 2 chances at a big hit critical is a big deal and really the crux around advantage.

I play crits are max damage + what you just rolled for damage dice, so it’s a big deal. Works both ways, a TRex critical on a bite can one shot many PCs.


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[Horwath]

I don’t “allow” a lot of builds at my table.

I allow everything if you sit down and give me a write up in character and role play your transition from one class to another as we go along that’s great and fine and you can do it. A little effort and role play is needed. I want you to write it down away from the table because the player will then put thought into the build so it goes smoother from there at the table.

Sadly the response usually is “I can’t just switch? I want to do this cool combo.”

A request for few paragraphs in an email and a little role play at the table somehow cuts multi-classing in half, maybe more. The player that gets immersed in their PC gets to do more. Once players do this the get hooked and want to play more, a good thing.


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You are splitting hairs a little here, aren't you?

Players should roleplay their characters, be inline with characters alignment as much as possible and not be a jerk to other players and the the world in general that the DM put effort to bring it to life,try not to metagame and have a good time. Both in social roleplay and combat.

Whatever are mechanics written down behind the character should be left to the player. It's their own mini-game. As long it is legal, by rules or your groups agreed house rules.

 

[smbakeresq]

You are splitting hairs a little here, aren't you?

Players should roleplay their characters, be inline with characters alignment as much as possible and not be a jerk to other players and the the world in general that the DM put effort to bring it to life,try not to metagame and have a good time. Both in social roleplay and combat.

Whatever are mechanics written down behind the character should be left to the player. It's their own mini-game. As long it is legal, by rules or your groups agreed house rules.

You have to sometimes. Haven't you ever been at a table where a player shows up with a mathematically optimized PC that they didn't have a name for yet? Or the dwarf fighter who took Mariner fighting style because its better than defensive for some builds yet cant explain the boat or water they were on or where they learned that style? Or have a player after the DM declares a player missed an attack "I know that roll hits I know the monsters AC from the monsters manual." Another poster in Enworld had to take the players phones away because they will looking up monster stats on apps at the table.

It sounds like I am cracking the whip, but if 5-10 minutes it takes to make up something to ground the PC in is too much to ask, well ....

 

[clearstream]

Wrong advantage gives closer to +4 or +4.5 Eleven accuracy should give closer to +2 or maybe + 2.5 on top of that. Your numbers are low. You cannot simply look at the difference in average dice outcomes and divine anything other than the difference of the average dice roll UNLESS you assume an equal distribution for all ACs/chance to hit values which in 5e is actually a terrible assumption. In 5e the more extreme the AC the less likely you are to encounter it as there just are very few enemies with those extreme AC's. In other words the majority of what you fight will usually fall between 30% to 70% chance to hit (the -5 +10 feats change this). Your number doesn't account for this.

I agree with you that it is fairly strong. One way to assess it is to look at the combinations on the dice.

misses/out-of
10/20
10/20*10/20 = 100/400
10/20*10/20*10/20 = 1000/8000

1/20
1/20*1/20 = 1/400
1/20*1/20*1/20 = 1/8000

19/20
19/20*19/20 = 361/400
19/20*19/20*19/20 = 6859/8000

Say a group plays once a week for two years, making one check of each type per session. How many missed checks of each type might groups like that experience?

50% = all experience up to 40 missed checks, half experience up to 52
25% = all experience up to 16 missed checks, half experience up to 26
12.5% = all experience up to 6 missed checks, half experience up to 13

5% = all experience up to 1 missed check, half experience up to 5
0.25% = about one-in-five groups experience 1 missed check
0.0125% = about one-in-eighty groups experience 1 missed check

95% = all experience up to 92 missed checks, half experience 99
90.25% = all experience up to 86 missed checks, half experience 94
85.7375% = all experience up to 81 missed checks, half experience 89

For reference at 35% (the average chance of missing against CR appropriate foes) all experience up to 25 missed checks, half experience 36

All means >99/100 such groups, half means >50/100.

Maybe that can be narrated by saying that most groups will hardly notice the change in frequency for critical hits, but groups should notice the change in frequency for ordinary hits. For example, missing every fortnight improving to missing twice per three months, to missing once per four months.

 

[TwoSix]

Wrong advantage gives closer to +4 or +4.5 Eleven accuracy should give closer to +2 or maybe + 2.5 on top of that. Your numbers are low. You cannot simply look at the difference in average dice outcomes and divine anything other than the difference of the average dice roll UNLESS you assume an equal distribution for all ACs/chance to hit values which in 5e is actually a terrible assumption. In 5e the more extreme the AC the less likely you are to encounter it as there just are very few enemies with those extreme AC's. In other words the majority of what you fight will usually fall between 30% to 70% chance to hit (the -5 +10 feats change this). Your number doesn't account for this.

Interestingly, while normal advantage sees its biggest bonus in the 30-70% range, EA advantage sees its biggest increase in hit bonus (over normal advantage) in the 20-50% range. (At 65%+, the EA advantage is already in the 95%+ hit area, so the actual conversion to a +hit bonus is saturated. The steep decline in miss frequency is still relevant, of course.)

This means EA advantage is ever so slightly better for non-archers, or characters without additional built-in hit chance. Not a bad feature, I think.

 

[Zmajdusa]

You folks seem to have forgotten about the Samurai Subclass, which has the ability to grant advantage on weapon attacks for one round for 3 times between long rests as a bonus action. The bonus action is a bit rough for dual wielding, however an archer specialized character can shine with it. Doubly so when they get Sharpshooter. Use action surge for awesome alpha strike.

 

[Coroc]

play how you want. But IMO. That's terrible. It at least takes some sting away if you tell me up front. But it's still terrible. I'm also sure you are in the extreme minority there so at least there's that to keep me smiling.

I might be in a minority, but not in an extreme one. there are many oldschoolers also in this forum who like 5e but do it their way (which is heavily encouraged by 5e you can read it in the official books: you do not like or miss an aspect of the game or a rule: change it) Of course my players know upfront and they normally would go for reasonable builds. Do not get me wrong I like powergaming also (most of the time even) but I do not like to combine rules which may be legal RAW and AL
but sound like the kennedy magic bullet theory to achieve a questionable advantage in game. Keep in mind (luckily) 5e does punish multiclassing and makes multiclassing chars often a one trick pony.

I can understand people who try to find loopholes for the fun of it, but I expect a DM to counter it in some way or another, because not every player wants to compete for dpr in a pen and paper game, like the damage dealers in an mmorpg raid.

To understand where I come from is to understand that if someone plays a pally at my table, I expect him to act it out. And no holy knight of lawful goodness would see any point in taking up the job of a guy who steals from other people. Nor would he take up the life of a common soldier, whoring, drinking and gambling to spend their war loot.

 

[Coroc]

You folks seem to have forgotten about the Samurai Subclass, which has the ability to grant advantage on weapon attacks for one round for 3 times between long rests as a bonus action. The bonus action is a bit rough for dual wielding, however an archer specialized character can shine with it. Doubly so when they get Sharpshooter. Use action surge for awesome alpha strike.

This is an example of powergaming I like. Samurai were often excellent archers, but these days everyone thinks samurai = katana

 

[EvanNave55]

You folks seem to have forgotten about the Samurai Subclass, which has the ability to grant advantage on weapon attacks for one round for 3 times between long rests as a bonus action. The bonus action is a bit rough for dual wielding, however an archer specialized character can shine with it. Doubly so when they get Sharpshooter. Use action surge for awesome alpha strike.

Actually the samurai ability is bonus action activation lasts until the end of your *next* turn. So bonus action at beginning of turn, attack, next turn attack, then it ends. The ability can give you two turns of advantage.

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