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D&D 5E Phantom Steed.

jodyjohnson

Adventurer
There actually is no argument.

We don't argue over preference (sometimes). Insert Monty Python sketch here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvcnx6-0GhA

If you are not DM your argument is invalid. If you do run games and you let players exploit your game, good for you, you have to deal with it, not me.

True to moniker. This explains why Jeremy Crawford's rulings are not valid - unless you are at the 5e D&D Lead Designer's table.
 

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neogod22

Explorer
Well when ppl started coming to the table talking about Sage advice says a wizard casting a spell can stop casting to counter a counterspell. Sage Advice was immediately banned.

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Pauln6

Hero
I dunno, I would only require a beastmaster ranger to use the Action economy when commanding their beast to do something that it would not naturally do. So once commanded to attack someone, it keeps attacking until it thinks it's going to lose and it would require a command to stop it retreating, switch target, stop attacking, or change tactics.

Similarly, if you want your mount to do something other than dash, dodge, or disengage, such as jump a chasm or attack, this requires your action. Further, while riding a beast companion as a mount, I would allow the application of the most favourable rules for the situation.
 

Rub

First Post
Funny banter. I came hear looking for advice on Phantom Steed being cast by a Small creature (gnome). Being the Steed is Large, are their any penalties for a gnome to mount, ride or dismount it? I imagine the mounting and dismounting would have to have some sort of penalty, but riding should be fine, no?
 

neogod22

Explorer
Funny banter. I came hear looking for advice on Phantom Steed being cast by a Small creature (gnome). Being the Steed is Large, are their any penalties for a gnome to mount, ride or dismount it? I imagine the mounting and dismounting would have to have some sort of penalty, but riding should be fine, no?
No, because the phantom steed can be a pony for the gnome. It's magic, you'll always create a size appropriate mount

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Rub

First Post
No, because the phantom steed can be a pony for the gnome. It's magic, you'll always create a size appropriate mount

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Er, I don't think that is correct. I think it is always Large:
"A Large quasi-real, horse-like creature appears on the ground in an unoccupied space of your choice within range."

Does someone else want to take a stab at this? BTW, does anyone else who has been on this thread think neogod22 was correct in his earlier assumption? I mean it seemed pretty obvious to me he was wrong given all the citations, but just curious.
 

neogod22

Explorer
Er, I don't think that is correct. I think it is always Large:
"A Large quasi-real, horse-like creature appears on the ground in an unoccupied space of your choice within range."

Does someone else want to take a stab at this? BTW, does anyone else who has been on this thread think neogod22 was correct in his earlier assumption? I mean it seemed pretty obvious to me he was wrong given all the citations, but just curious.
You can think what you want, if you're a DM you can rule how you want, but I would not make any of my players summon a large creature, if their size is small. Just like I would not have any NPC who can summon a mount, not summon a size appropriate mount. It's pretty stupid to try and be an A-hole to have a gnome summon a horse when he obviously can't even reach it's sac, let alone ride it, but if you're a DM, do what you want to your players, I could care less, I'm not in your game.

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neogod22

Explorer
And what do you think I'm wrong about? I've been play testing 5th edition since it's been called D&D Next. Look in the front of Xanther's Guide about DM's, it says exactly what I've been saying all along. The DM has final say in everything. They are not beholden to the rules like the players.

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And what do you think I'm wrong about?

Your interpretation of the mount movement rules where you assert that mounts are limited to their rider's speed. A reading that would make more narrative sense if the rider were bearing the mount.

Heck, the first line of Mounted Combat says:

Player's Handbook said:
A knight charging into battle on a warhorse, a wizard casting spells from the back of a griffon, or a cleric soaring through the sky on a pegasus ali enjoy the benefits of speed and mobility that a mount can provide.

Why would it say that if riding a mount doesn't increase your movement speed?

The difference between a controlled mount and an independent mount isn't that a controlled mount is limited to it's rider's movement, it's that only trained mounts can be controlled mounts. That's why controlled mounts are mechanically so much better than independent mounts. If an independent mount is intelligent (like a dragon or a giant) then you can work together, but normally independence is not a useful trait in an animal mount.

There is no statement on PHB p198 that supports your interpretation. It is -- at best -- left unstated. However, lacking a specific rule for the movement rate of a mount, the more general rules of the movement rate of the creature and the carrying capacity rules should apply. After all, all the other game statistics carry over when a creature is mounted; why wouldn't movement rate? You're saying that a horse carrying 400 pounds of gold moves a speed of 60, but the same horse carrying 250 pounds of dwarf moves 25? And if the same horse bore a Str 10 halfling that wore Full Plate (well under 150 pounds), the horse would be limited to move 15? What happens if our halfling climbs on an trained elephant? And if that halfling falls asleep the elephant can suddenly move faster? Are vehicles similarly limited? Are ships piloted by halflings slower than ships piloted by wood elves? What if a halfling joins the elven crew? This doesn't make any sense.

I've been play testing 5th edition since it's been called D&D Next.

Which means you've been misreading the rules for longer than anyone?

Look, if you're arguing that age implies authority, well, no edition of D&D going all the way back some 43 years to 1974 has ever restricted the movement of a mount to the movement of the rider.

Look in the front of Xanther's Guide about DM's, it says exactly what I've been saying all along. The DM has final say in everything. They are not beholden to the rules like the players.

Just because you can house rule your table doesn't mean your reading of the rules is the generally accepted reading of the rules. I can assure you that nobody here cares what you do at your own table since none of us are at your table. Really, nobody cares. The rest of us are happy with move 60 horses limited by lift and carry rules or the optional encumbrance rules at our own tables. All people are saying is, "That reading isn't supported by the text even if you squint, and it doesn't make narrative sense, either."
 
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neogod22

Explorer
Your interpretation of the mount movement rules where you assert that mounts are limited to their rider's speed. A reading that would make more narrative sense if the rider were bearing the mount.

Heck, the first line of Mounted Combat says:



Why would it say that if riding a mount doesn't increase your movement speed?

The difference between a controlled mount and an independent mount isn't that a controlled mount is limited to it's rider's movement, it's that only trained mounts can be controlled mounts. That's why controlled mounts are mechanically so much better than independent mounts. If an independent mount is intelligent (like a dragon or a giant) then you can work together, but normally independence is not a useful trait in an animal mount.

There is no statement on PHB p198 that supports your interpretation. It is -- at best -- left unstated. However, lacking a specific rule for the movement rate of a mount, the more general rules of the movement rate of the creature and the carrying capacity rules should apply. After all, all the other game statistics carry over when a creature is mounted; why wouldn't movement rate? You're saying that a horse carrying 400 pounds of gold moves a speed of 60, but the same horse carrying 250 pounds of dwarf moves 25? And if the same horse bore a Str 10 halfling that wore Full Plate (well under 150 pounds), the horse would be limited to move 15? What happens if our halfling climbs on an trained elephant? And if that halfling falls asleep the elephant can suddenly move faster? Are vehicles similarly limited? Are ships piloted by halflings slower than ships piloted by wood elves? What if a halfling joins the elven crew? This doesn't make any sense.



Which means you've been misreading the rules for longer than anyone?

Look, if you're arguing that age implies authority, well, no edition of D&D going all the way back some 43 years to 1974 has ever restricted the movement of a mount to the movement of the rider.



Just because you can house rule your table doesn't mean your reading of the rules is the generally accepted reading of the rules. I can assure you that nobody here cares what you do at your own table since none of us are at your table. Really, nobody cares. The rest of us are happy with move 60 horses limited by lift and carry rules or the optional encumbrance rules at our own tables. All people are saying is, "That reading isn't supported by the text even if you squint, and it doesn't make narrative sense, either."
You didn't quote my post, so I had a hard time figuring out what you're talking about. Or maybe you did that on purpose so you can try and get your point of misunderstanding me across.

I'm guessing you are talking about me saying that on the turn of mounting and dismounting when I said that since mounting discounting cost half your movement that goes for your mount too. Let me give you an example,of why this makes sense. When you get into a car, it comes to a complete stop right? Just like when you leave a car. You following me? You never try to jump on a car while it's moving 30+ mph why, you could, but one of two things will happen, either the car will hit you, and you become seriously injured or killed, or you miss the car all together. It costs the mount the same amount of time to allow you to mount/dismount it as it takes you to mount/dismount it. I don't see why that is an issue, unless of course you're one of those players who is looking for a way to cheat.

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