We saw a Star War! Last Jedi spoiler thread

[Water Bob]

Sure. To me, the difference is that in episode IV, the rebels are a rag-tag group, clearly fighting with limited resources against a dominant opponent.

In episodes VII-VIII, the New Republic is dominant, and ought not to have quite as limited resources as in episode IV.

Actually, the we've seen very little about the New Republic. We've only seen the capital system being destroyed. The films has focused on General Leia and her Resistance group, which is not a New Republic force (though she does get some support from allies in the New Republic).

The Resistance Against the First Order is an independent group, created by Leia because she saw that the New Republic was doing little to face the growing threat of the First Order. The group is underfunded and is supported, mainly, with out-of-date tech and Civil War era craft.

I imagine, had we seen more of the New Republic, before the fleet was taken out by Starkiller base, that we'd have seen ultra-modern, high tech vessels and soldiers with top grade tech.

 

[reelo]

This.

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[Ovinomancer]

Sure. To me, the difference is that in episode IV, the rebels are a rag-tag group, clearly fighting with limited resources against a dominant opponent.

In episodes VII-VIII, the New Republic is dominant, and ought not to have quite as limited resources as in episode IV.

At the end of episode VIII, the NR has morphed back into the Rebellion. That feels very very odd to me. I can see that it fits the original Rebellion against Power theme of the initial movies, but it seems lame that that the only theme that can be used. In a way, it contradicts the theme of "Businesses Enriching Themselves on Conflict", which is present at the Casino, in that the NR only has a niche as rebels against oppression -- they can only achieve their best form after allowing an oppressive power to gain hold. That problem maps to the movies themselves, as they give folks a good feeling -- heroism by fighting oppression -- only by putting the First Order back in charge.

Thx!
TomB

Okay, you missed some things set up in TFA. The Resistance isn't the New Republic, for one. It's a separate thing formed by Leia to fight against the 1st Order. The New Republic doesn't condone this effort, but there are enough supporters that secretly fund it.

Pretty sure all of that is set up in TFA. So, yeah, if you conflate the two I'm sure you're confused.

 

[Ovinomancer]

Yeah, the parallels there were pretty clear, and I thought that was interesting. I had no idea really about the "in world" history of the First Order. But it seems that their slow and steady rise to prominence is pretty clearly explained.

EDITED TO ADD: Apparently there was a smear campaign against Leia, labeling her the "daughter of Darth Vader" which damages her credibility, and which shifts some people away from teh Republic. That is a great concept and I wish that had made it into the film. Even if it was only one line of dialogue near the end to explain why no one answered the cal for help. Something like "It seems that there aren't many people out there willing to risk obliteration by the First Order to try and help Darth Vader's daughter."

That would have been cool.

My biggest set of criticisms of the film I put in the 'needs just one line' category.

Flying Leia: "She doing it again, get the door!" Establishes that Leia use of the force, and in particular that use, has precedent and also instead treated as 'whatever' by everyone.

The Knights of Ren: a line of dialogue establishing that Snoke's guards are some of the Knights. This adds a lot of extra weight to Ren fighting, and killing, his former disciples and friends.

The line you have above, that ties in that fact with the lack of allies.

In Canto Bight's jail: "I informed the 1st Order about that deserter we just picked up." Establishes that the 1st Order has scope and reach in the galaxy at large.

During the chase, on the Supremacy: "Sir, should we vector in reinforcements from blahblah System?" Hux: "There's no need for fancy maneuvers here, the prey caught tightly in our trap. It's just a matter of time." Establishes scope again, and also obviates the questions about doing a short hop to head off the Resistance. Also, two lines.

There was one I had for Rey/Luke, but damned if I can remember it right now.

 

[wicked cool]

Reelo-Just curious since this is your trilogy. Is it better? What makes it better?

My trilogy had an impact for 40 years. Realistically is Rey the next Vader? Vader is considered one of the top10 most iconic villians of all time. Is there anything iconic in this movie or the previous movie

In empire when vader says hes lukes father the star wars community went crazy (well as a younger kid I felt it did). so far what was your crazy moment

My expectation were
Luke would die-based on age of actor.
other major actors would die also due to age or basically unwilling to do more (Ford)
to be honest i'm pleasantly surprised chewie has big role in movies but I'm now very worried about the fate of 2 droids
I expected new heroes to rise and to have new love for these. I've done these for new books where the author killed of hero and replaced with a new 1

I do feel like sequels/remakes like jaws +1, terminator 3+, Alien 3+ seem to be chasing the magic of what made the first 2 good but maybe that's me. I feel like Post empire has been doing the same thing. However the formula seemed to have worked for other franchises such as Toy Story

 

[Water Bob]

I don't think I'm buying the part where Ben tells Rey that her parents were nobodies. If its true, I'm way cool with that. It goes with the theme of the movie--that of letting go of the past, embracing the new, as the story continues, evolves.

But, Ben said that her parents sold her into slavery, didn't he?

Rey wasn't a slave. She was alone, with a lot of freedom, and sold her salvage to Unkar Plutt (who she was supposedly sold to). It's clear in TFA that Plutt is not Rey's master.

I wouldn't be surprised if Abrams, in Episode IX, doesn't flip it again in a big reveal where we learn something BIG about Rey's parents.





Some other notes....

I've read that Rian Johnson has been put in creative charge of the next trilogy, Episodes X, Xl, and XII. I've also read that Rian wants to stop numbering the episodes, so that Abram's Episode IX will be the last numbered one. From then on out, the films will just have titles, like Rogue One.

My other guess about Abram's next film is that we'll see a lot of the Knights of Ren.

I kinda wish Finn had died in TLJ. That scene where Rose saves him would have been perfect. I did like it the way it was, and I did like the Rose character. In fact, I liked her a lot.

Of all the new characters, though, Finn is the one that I have no real connection. I wouldn't mind him gone.

I was wishy washy about Poe, at first, but through his comic, and now through his scenes in TLJ, I really like that character.

I love Rey. She's awesome.

 

[Ovinomancer]

I don't think I'm buying the part where Ben tells Rey that her parents were nobodies. If its true, I'm way cool with that. It goes with the theme of the movie--that of letting go of the past, embracing the new, as the story continues, evolves.

But, Ben said that her parents sold her into slavery, didn't he?

Rey wasn't a slave. She was alone, with a lot of freedom, and sold her salvage to Unkar Plutt (who she was supposedly sold to). It's clear in TFA that Plutt is not Rey's master.

I wouldn't be surprised if Abrams, in Episode IX, doesn't flip it again in a big reveal where we learn something BIG about Rey's parents.

Um, she turned in salvage for food. Work for food is pretty much slavery.

Some other notes....

I've read that Rian Johnson has been put in creative charge of the next trilogy, Episodes X, Xl, and XII. I've also read that Rian wants to stop numbering the episodes, so that Abram's Episode IX will be the last numbered one. From then on out, the films will just have titles, like Rogue One.

My other guess about Abram's next film is that we'll see a lot of the Knights of Ren.

I kinda wish Finn had died in TLJ. That scene where Rose saves him would have been perfect. I did like it the way it was, and I did like the Rose character. In fact, I liked her a lot.

Of all the new characters, though, Finn is the one that I have no real connection. I wouldn't mind him gone.

I was wishy washy about Poe, at first, but through his comic, and now through his scenes in TLJ, I really like that character.

I love Rey. She's awesome.

I gotta disagree, I really like Finn. I understand your point, though -- after TFA, Finn mostly lost his purpose. In TFA, he sparked Rey and was the reason the Resistance had a chance to destroy SKB. But that was because he was a (recently) ex-Stormtrooper. In TLJ, his major contribution to the plot was -- being an ex-stormtrooper who knew where on the Sovereign the hyperspace tracker would be. I hope they find a better motivation/use for the character other than 'he's an ex-stormtrooper' in Ep IX. His semi-rivalry with Phasma isn't strong enough, mostly because Phasma isn't well used. And what a shame that is.

 

[Water Bob]

Two other points.

If they're not going to use C-3PO and R2-D2, then maybe they should die a hero's death. Blasted into nothingness, or left floating out into space, after saving the day. I could see R2, on the hull of a ship, during a battle, then BOOM! There goes R2, and the audience cries.

And 3PO, overcoming his cowardice, helping R2 save the day, and the explosion that utterly destroys R2 sends the protocal droid spinning out into space, talking to himself, lost, forever.

Or...something like that.



And...I sure would like to see Chewie used like never before! We saw a lot of him in TFA. Let's see more! Let's see the wookiee be a true hero and kick some ass!

 

[hawkeyefan]

My biggest set of criticisms of the film I put in the 'needs just one line' category.

Flying Leia: "She doing it again, get the door!" Establishes that Leia use of the force, and in particular that use, has precedent and also instead treated as 'whatever' by everyone.

The Knights of Ren: a line of dialogue establishing that Snoke's guards are some of the Knights. This adds a lot of extra weight to Ren fighting, and killing, his former disciples and friends.

The line you have above, that ties in that fact with the lack of allies.

In Canto Bight's jail: "I informed the 1st Order about that deserter we just picked up." Establishes that the 1st Order has scope and reach in the galaxy at large.

During the chase, on the Supremacy: "Sir, should we vector in reinforcements from blahblah System?" Hux: "There's no need for fancy maneuvers here, the prey caught tightly in our trap. It's just a matter of time." Establishes scope again, and also obviates the questions about doing a short hop to head off the Resistance. Also, two lines.

There was one I had for Rey/Luke, but damned if I can remember it right now.

Yeah, most of my concerns could have been addressed by a little extra dialogue like you describe. It's why I don't consider them major flaws. Well, that, and being rational.

 

[Water Bob]

Alt-Right Group takes credit for Rotten Tomatoes score.

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