D&D 5E PC Permadeath: Yea or Nay?

[Olive]

I follow a decision tree like this-

1. Is the PC a paladin? If yes, then permadeath. If no, then goto 2.

2. Is the PC a gnome? If yes, then permadeath. If no, then goto 3.

3. Is the PC a wielder of the rapier? If yes, then permadeath. If no, then goto 4.

4. Is the PC a character with a silly name, like "Character McCharacterface?" If yes, then permadeath. If no, then goto 5.

5. Is the PC's player someone who consistently has to "use the bathroom" when it is time to pay for pizza? If yes, then permadeath. If no, then goto 6.

6. Is the PC the beneficiary of dice rolled off the table that are consistently 20s? If yes, then permadeath. If no, then goto 7.

7. Is the PC a kender? If yes, then permadeath. And permadeath again. If no, then goto 8.

8. Eh, dying isn't much fun. Depending on the campaign, resurrection or new PC.

New PC idea:

Gnomy McPaladin, the rapier wielding Gnome Paladin.

 

[Sunseeker]

I always thought pernadeath was the opposite of a teachable moment myself.

The character is gone so why assume the new character knows more?

Seems the opposite of role playing to just assume knowledge transfer.

If i want characters to learn from experience they need to live or come back, right?

As for teaching players lessons, i dont need to kill characters for that myself. Often a conversation is enough.

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The target of a teachable moment is the player not the character.

 

[pming]

Hiya!

Er, permadeath is the default rule, isn't it? I mean, the PC's have to be able to "return" someone from the dead otherwise...right class, high enough level, material components, money, etc. At our table I can probably count on my fingers how many times a character has been raised/resurrected/reincarnated in the last two decades and still have ample fingers left over.

The usual is for the player to roll up a new 1st level character. For 5e, my house rule is "average party level - 2, maximum starting level of 3rd") if they make a new PC. If their PC gets raised, they add a permanent 1 to the "death save". So, a PC that has been raised from the dead, say, 4 times (never happened in my campaigns, but for sake of argument), their "Death Save" wouldn't be 10+, it would be 14+. They also have to make the whole "Death Save" trio IMMEDIATELY, as they are "raised with 0hp's"...they are technically alive, but are going to die again if someone doesn't step in or they make their three Death Saves. The theory is that, eventually, the PC is going to run out of "lives" and the gods/multiverse is going to put it's foot down and say "No more life for you!"

With our normal brand of D&D (1e/Hackmaster), there is a Resurrection Survival chance, and each time you are raised your PC's Con goes down one. So...yeah. Kinda built into the system so no house rules needed.

As for Players "having a say" on their characters life/death...uh...they do. It's called "playing the game". If the player is stupid and has his fighter with no armor and 10hp's rush the trio of ogres guarding the door out...well, the player DID "have a say" on if his character lives or dies. If the player just gets screwed by ridiculously bad dice rolls...well, it happens. If bad luck can screw over the bad guys...it can screw over the good guys too (e.g., "Let the chips fall where they may").

^_^

Paul L. Ming

 

[5ekyu]

The target of a teachable moment is the player not the character.

Right ok so if the lesson is for an in game world thing teaching the pkayer and not a character is somewhat less effective than teaching them both -cuz the new character doesnt inherit the memories of the old.

If the lesdon is about some real world behavior issues, i try and never bring that into game results and deal with it person to person.

I dont see a case where choosing teaching thru pc death is better result?

But ymmv of course.

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[Draegn]

In my game there is permanent death, however, the players if willing to go through all the necessary requirements may attempt to bring someone back. At the very least I have them role play out their "prayers and praying" to which ever deity they chose to beseech.

 

[Sunseeker]

Right ok so if the lesson is for an in game world thing teaching the pkayer and not a character is somewhat less effective than teaching them both -cuz the new character doesnt inherit the memories of the old.

If the lesdon is about some real world behavior issues, i try and never bring that into game results and deal with it person to person.

I dont see a case where choosing teaching thru pc death is better result?

But ymmv of course.

Sent from my [device_name] using EN World mobile app

You're really reading WAY too much into what I said.

 

[machineelf]

My opinion on the matter lives over here, but I'm curious how the rest of you guys do it. When a PC fails that last saving throw, how do you handle it? Does the player get a say in their resurrection? Do you go strictly by the book? House rule it? How do you like to handle resurrection at your table?

I use a house rule similar to Matt Mercer's on Critical Role. I had put the details in here, but then realized you probably don't want/need them, but in short, the first resurrection happens as normal, but each resurrection after that requires a roll to see if it is successful, and it gets harder with each additional resurrection. The idea is that the soul's tether to the material plane gets weaker each time.

But I don't allow temple priests to have powerful magic in my game, normally. Powerful magic like that is mostly a rare gift of the gods to a few clerics and druids and such. So resurrection is a hard thing to do at low levels anyway in my campaign.

 

[Lanefan]

New PC idea:

Gnomy McPaladin, the rapier wielding Gnome Paladin.

More like:

Gnomy McPaladin, the rapier wielding Gnome Paladin who never pays for pizza and is descended from a Kender; and whose player's dice haven't rolled on the table since 1983.

 

[DRF]

Everything you do to players should be a teachable moment. Teach them something about how the setting works, what sort of behaviours you expect from them, how you intend to run the game. If permadeath work to that end, great. But if the death doesn't serve any real purpose other than to tell Bobby to roll up a new character, what's the point?

Death is meaningless in real life too, why should it be different at the table?

Provided that the DM isn't out to get the PCs, then they died because of their own actions and choices. I'm definitely in the group of people who think that removing perma death removes any tension and feeling of danger and consequences. I'd be bored to tears playing a campaign where I didn't fear for my character's life.

It seems to me that the lessons learned through perma death are far more valuable than any setting-rules learned through resurrection. Besides, if dying isn't even an option, then why have the game element? Just tell a story together.

 

[delericho]

When a PC fails that last saving throw, how do you handle it?

At that point, not only is the character dead but I throw the player out of the group and never speak to her again.

Sure, it may seem a bit harsh, and that one player didn't take it well when Blackleaf died, but you can't put a price on the integrity of the imaginary world...