[PF2] Legendary or Magical

[The Crimson Binome]

The difference is not significant. If something's legendary, then that implies it isn't actually true. You can tell legends about anything.

Maybe a legendary rogue can fall out of the sky and take no damage, but a legendary rogue can also walk along clouds in the first place, and climb smoke to get up there. It's a legend. It didn't actually happen.

Legends don't apply to things that are happening right in front of us. That level 20 rogue isn't a legend. They're real. They're right in front of us. They are constrained by the laws of reality.

 

[Celebrim]

Legendary = Extraordinary
Legendary = Superheroic
Legendary = Superhuman

Legendary != Magical

Without endorsing or condemning particular mechanics, I'm Ok with characters of legendary skill doing superhuman things.

 

[Celebrim]

They are constrained by the laws of reality.

What are the laws of reality?

In reality, magic doesn't work. The laws of reality prevent it.

If a 20th level rogue wants to climb a column of smoke, and has enough ranks in balance, then I'm willing to give him a shot at doing it. It is impossible in reality, but then the 20th level rogue doesn't exist in reality. He exists in a fantasy.

 

[Celebrim]

And what kind of magic is “giants existing in flagrant violation of the square-cube law” an example of?

Most D&D giants are not so large that the square-cube law makes their existence impossible. They are so large that their proportions can't be the same as a human, but we have examples of terrestrial mammals that are of a similar scale. There were Megatheriums capable of an upright posture that were 18' high when upright. And T-Rex was 12' high at the hip and used a two-legged stance. So giants up to Frost and Cloud giant scale aren't completely implausible even without invoking some sort of magic. If we assume that pound for pound, these beings are slightly more durable than humans owing to some divine or magical ancestory, then they become even less implausible.

Mountain Giants and Titans on the other hand absolutely have to invoke being made out of unobtanium to appear with roughly human proportions. But a 12' tall Hill Giant doesn't.

 

[zztong]

> Something else (comment below).

(1) The rogue looked out over the courtyard, saw the fall would injure him, and decided to sneak back down through the tower. Concerned with the possibility that he may not always be able to retrace his steps, he vowed to buy a rope so he could climb down next time.

(2) The rogue jumped and ran off, thankful that he was on the first floor, else he might have twisted an ankle, broken a leg, or worse.

(3) The rogue jumped and landed in the fire department's life net. Thankfully, the fire department was prepared and had received enough warning. Ever since Tom Hanks had gotten himself lost in the nearby caves, calling himself "Pardue, a Holy Man", they had been aware of the antics of delusional D&D players.

(4) The Fighter hacked his way to the top of the tower, and then back down. (What? The poll doesn't say "other" has to even involve a rogue.)

 

[zztong]

> Something else (comment below).

Seriously though, if I'm playing the rogue, I don't want to jump from the tower using ability or magic unless its something like a 10 foot fall or maybe higher if I'm going to land in a hay wagon or water. Part of the fun playing a rogue, to me, is to succeed in normal and plausible ways. A super-heroic or magical rogue, to me, makes the rogue less interesting.

 

[The Crimson Binome]

What are the laws of reality?

In reality, magic doesn't work. The laws of reality prevent it.

If a 20th level rogue wants to climb a column of smoke, and has enough ranks in balance, then I'm willing to give him a shot at doing it. It is impossible in reality, but then the 20th level rogue doesn't exist in reality. He exists in a fantasy.

Reality is the part of the game world that isn't magic. I probably chose the wrong word for it, because magic is a part of the game world as well, but the distinction still exists. The game world has a part that's magic, and a part that isn't magic, and a rogue is definitely not-magic. Legends aren't a part of the reality of the game world, though. Legends are just stories, which means anything can happen in them, because they aren't constrained by reality (any reality).

If the game world includes being able to fall any distance without getting injured as a non-magical ability, then that's not too much of a stretch; but it also wouldn't be legendary, in any sense of the word, if that was the case. It would just be a thing that people can do, if they're skilled enough. It's not like you're shouting someone's arm back on, or anything. (Likewise, if you could shout someone's arm back on, then that would also not be legendary; if real people who actually exist within the game world can do it, then it's a part of that reality, and not a legend.)

 

[Celebrim]

Reality is the part of the game world that isn't magic. I probably chose the wrong word for it, because magic is a part of the game world as well, but the distinction still exists. The game world has a part that's magic, and a part that isn't magic, and a rogue is definitely not-magic. Legends aren't a part of the reality of the game world, though. Legends are just stories, which means anything can happen in them, because they aren't constrained by reality (any reality).

It would appear then you are having just a semantic argument.

The problem is that I'm not convinced your assertion that legends are fiction is in fact true. Legends are stories without concrete evidence for their truth. Legends lack good historical documentation. Often legends are false or at least true facts are mixed up with false, but there is nothing inherently false about a legend. A legendary thief would be one of such renown and such remarkable ability that they would still be remembered at a time when history has passed on into legend. But that doesn't mean that the story lacked a basis in fact, or that the exploits of the thief were necessarily imagined.

but it also wouldn't be legendary, in any sense of the word, if that was the case.

Actually, I think it would be the case in the second sense of the word legendary that appears in the dictionary: "remarkable enough to be famous; very well known."

 

[The Crimson Binome]

Actually, I think it would be the case in the second sense of the word legendary that appears in the dictionary: "remarkable enough to be famous; very well known."

I guess, if you're going with that definition, then you could say it fits. It's not how I interpret the question, but you could go with that.

Is a mere level 20 rogue actually even famous within Golarion, though? There's certainly no requirement that you must do anything noteworthy in order to reach level 20. And if your big trick is the ability to fall out of a tower without getting hurt, that's not going to impress anyone who's ever seen a level 1 wizard in action; you'll never become famous that way.

 

[jhingelshod]

And if your big trick is the ability to fall out of a tower without getting hurt, that's not going to impress anyone who's ever seen a level 1 wizard in action

It may not impress anyone, but it's certainly ruffled some feathers on the forums