D&D 4E Revised 4E Wizard Class with Freeform Spellcasting System

[Garthanos]

Meh, one does thunder damage, one does psychic. One puts out a pretty decent amount of damage, the other doesn't. One targets FORT and one targets WILL. They are, to some extent, useful for different things. I tend to agree that BS is a bit of a spoiler power, being party friendly and just generally being obviously simple to employ. The damage output of T-Wave isn't ENOUGH more to have a vast impact, etc.

The difference in Area and combined with ally friendly is pretty damn huge... And I let people thematically re-damage type things all the time.

If you're going to build in that direction ANYWAY, then this is a fairly smart power to have.

It takes an incredibly narrow build for it to even be halfway viable.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

The difference in Area and combined with ally friendly is pretty damn huge... And I let people thematically re-damage type things all the time.


It takes an incredibly narrow build for it to even be halfway viable.

I don't agree, its useful for common builds. And while I think reskinning powers and making versions with different damage types is perfectly OK, if you just say "anything can be decreed to do any damage type" then you may run into some problems.

 

[Garthanos]

some subtlety may only create an artificial ... lore to designing your character right and that is not a 4e goal.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

some subtlety may only create an artificial ... lore to designing your character right and that is not a 4e goal.

It is clear that there ARE trade-offs to how 4e does things. The issue boils down to you could remove all mechanical significance from every thematic choice, but then you're left to deal with them ONLY in a narrative way. That might be OK in some games, D&D has never been one of them. So 4e was left with providing a lot of subtley different powers which are similar but not identical and link the thematics of various sources and damage types, etc. to mechanics.

Now, I am of the opinion that 4e should have done it better. I think they should have thematically linked various damage types and other effects rules to specific narrative elements. So (just as suggestions, not saying these are rote) you might use ongoing damage only for poison and necrotic damage. You might limit dazed conditions to force/thunder. You might limit attack penalties to psychic attacks. There are obviously other choices along these lines (and maybe some other even better techniques which are similar, I've not thought this out very thoroughly). I think this was actually something that 4e's designers started out doing, but they quickly got carried away and didn't follow through on it very well. It would have definitely created some interesting links between damage types and roles, tactics, etc.

 

[Garthanos]

Now, I am of the opinion that 4e should have done it better. I think they should have thematically linked various damage types and other effects rules to specific narrative elements.

Its potentially a way to introduce flavorful thematic distinctions or even just make damage types better at one or another effect. Like having bigger effects show up at lower levels ...

 

[Tony Vargas]

Its potentially a way to introduce flavorful thematic distinctions or even just make damage types better at one or another effect. Like having bigger effects show up at lower levels ...

D&D had always had a little of that. For instance, in 1e, fire spells popped up at lower levels, but tended to be more dangerous to your party, while cold spells at higher levels, lower damage, but more controllable.

Maybe I was just used to that, but I thought I saw it in 4e. A cold power was more likely to slow or immobilize you, and to target FORT, for instance. Fire more likely to just do damage and target REF. Psychic, obviously, to target will & to slide or pull. Thunder & force more likely to push. Etc.

But my point is that FAR too many (official) powers are very similar and just there to pad out the books. Many are unnecessary and lead to rules bloat.

It's hard not to notice the occassionally virtually-identical power in two different lists from the same Source, or the obvious 'upgrade path' versions of a nice Heroic power popping up at Paragon & Epic. I think it stemmed more from wanting a presentation that kept the game simple & consistent to a player stepping through the process the first time (mind you, the first time with a given character, from level 1-30, so not necessarily a 'new' player). "Pick a power from your class lists at this level" is much more intuitive, than "pick a power from your Source List for this level, and apply your Classe's Role Enhancement* to that power by..blah..blah...blah..." so is "Replace your lowest-level power with One from class list at your new level" even as oppossed to just adding "...or upgrade one of your existing powers by ...blah...blah...blah... it now counts as a power of your new level."



* my prefered hypothetical method to eliminate redundant powers.

 

[Garthanos]

Maybe I was just used to that, but I thought I saw it in 4e. A cold power was more likely to slow or immobilize you, and to target FORT, for instance. Fire more likely to just do damage and target REF. Psychic, obviously, to target will & to slide or pull. Thunder & force more likely to push. Etc.

Oh the pattern of likelihood was certainly there... I can easily visualize powers that telekinetically grab someone by their electrons and in moving them the slippage creates lightning damage OR somewhat slower moving walls of fire and heat that build up temp and push using threat and heat waves and so on.

So yeah there is pattern which is kind of cool and its a breakable one.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

Oh the pattern of likelihood was certainly there... I can easily visualize powers that telekinetically grab someone by their electrons and in moving them the slippage creates lightning damage OR somewhat slower moving walls of fire and heat that build up temp and push using threat and heat waves and so on.

So yeah there is pattern which is kind of cool and its a breakable one.

Right, its fine to subvert these, at times. There should be a Lightning power that immobilizes instead of pushing, or whatever. Obviously 4e conditions are also pretty general things, so you're going to have a good bit of overlap. I found it a bit confusing though that you could get such a huge variety of effects out of what were described as basically almost the same thing.

 

[Garthanos]

There should be a Lightning power that immobilizes instead of pushing, or whatever.

Yes I called that electrical jangling of the nerves so the subjects mobility is ahem shot

But it could also be creating magnetic effects on the subject and other immobile objects.(alah the ground)

 

[Garthanos]

I found it a bit confusing though that you could get such a huge variety of effects out of what were described as basically almost the same thing.

Games simplify for usability sake and there really is no fixing that.