D&D 5E What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?

Nagol

Unimportant
It's literally one sentence. And it serves a couple of different purposes at the same time. I would call that efficient storytelling and gameplay.


It may be a single sentence, but the structure and content requires a fair amount of processing from the DM. Let's take a look:

"Drawing upon my previous life as an acolyte in service to the church on the Street of a Thousand Gods, I try to recall lore about the significance of this figure."


DM's Brain: "Drawing" -- what's he drawing, what's he drawing with? what's he drawing on?
DM's Brain: "upon my previous life as an acolyte" -- OK not drawing. What do I remember about the character's backstory? Was he an acolyte, and if he was, what is the relevance?
DM's Brain: "in service to the church on the Street of a Thousand Gods" -- Which church? Where was that again? This city? That city? What is the relevance?
DM's Brain: "I try to recall lore about the significance of this figure." -- finally an action! Why didn't he start with that! Oh, sure roll Religion check.
 

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akr71

Hero
I left my 2e game after I got tired of the DM trying to continually push a political intrigue/kingdom building campaign when it was clear to me and many of the players we preferred a light hearted hack 'n' slash game. That DM was very much a control freak, telling us how we should be playing our characters.

I left a Star Wars campaign because it felt like one player was trying to sabotage the game. When a roll failed, he pulled out his blaster and started shooting - whether it was an NPC or a ship console or a computer, it didn't matter.
 

So DM's cannot create house rules at the table for the game? Sorry, I'm going to disagree with that.

So in our last session a new player corrected me regarding 5e AoO, myself and the rest of the table had a relapse into old edition rules, and I was ok with it, but made a small amendment which I felt was necessary and it assisted my personal issue with the easy advantage received from flanking.
I feel as a DM I was within my rights to add that small amendment to the rules.
You can do that but you won't have me as player. (Aren't there some optional flanking rules somewhere in the official sources that could be used?)
 

akr71

Hero



It may be a single sentence, but the structure and content requires a fair amount of processing from the DM. Let's take a look:

"Drawing upon my previous life as an acolyte in service to the church on the Street of a Thousand Gods, I try to recall lore about the significance of this figure."


DM's Brain: "Drawing" -- what's he drawing, what's he drawing with? what's he drawing on?
DM's Brain: "upon my previous life as an acolyte" -- OK not drawing. What do I remember about the character's backstory? Was he an acolyte, and if he was, what is the relevance?
DM's Brain: "in service to the church on the Street of a Thousand Gods" -- Which church? Where was that again? This city? That city? What is the relevance?
DM's Brain: "I try to recall lore about the significance of this figure." -- finally an action! Why didn't he start with that! Oh, sure roll Religion check.

This DM's Brain doesn't get confused and waits until my player finishes speaking his or her complete thought before jumping to conclusions about what the player is trying to say - just like I do in real life. I mean saying that whole phrase takes what? Three seconds? Sure its wordy, but if it helps a player get into their character, fine.

I also expect my players to wait for me to finish speaking and not interrupt me. Knee-jerk reactions to half descriptions rarely result in fun gaming.
 

Nagol

Unimportant
This DM's Brain doesn't get confused and waits until my player finishes speaking his or her complete thought before jumping to conclusions about what the player is trying to say - just like I do in real life. I mean saying that whole phrase takes what? Three seconds? Sure its wordy, but if it helps a player get into their character, fine.

I also expect my players to wait for me to finish speaking and not interrupt me. Knee-jerk reactions to half descriptions rarely result in fun gaming.

9 seconds at my typical speech rate.

Bandwidth of speech is low and asynchronous. Made worse by protocols that open channels that need future information to complete. Subject-action-object-supporting clauses structure substantially eases verbal as opposed to written communication. Especially when there is a high chance the supporting clauses are unnecessary.
 

akr71

Hero
9 seconds at my typical speech rate.

Bandwidth of speech is low and asynchronous. Made worse by protocols that open channels that need future information to complete. Subject-action-object-supporting clauses structure substantially eases verbal as opposed to written communication. Especially when there is a high chance the supporting clauses are unnecessary.
I stand corrected. I'll admit, I just timed myself reading the same sentence and it came in at a shade over 7 seconds.

I still stand by my comment of waiting until my player speaks before committing to any judgement. In fact, the more my players speak, the more time I have to think about my response. I've come to learn that unless I say "The monster charges forward, roll for initiative!" I have no clue what they might do next... and I love it!

Edit: Also, I understand what you are getting at. I play in an online game and we have one player who rambles incessantly when trying to describe his actions. As a player I find it frustrating - I can only guess what our DM is thinking.
 
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Inchoroi

Adventurer
@iserith: Well, at least I think I understand where you are coming from now. I had totally misunderstood the thrust of your argument, hence your confusion over why I was talking about rail roading. I had thought you were standing on the principle of player agency. In fact it seems more the case now that you explain yourself is that you are standing on the principle of the rules are the rules, and ought to be followed strictly as written. So all my discussion about process loops, player agency, and railroading was only tangential to the point you were trying to make.

--snip--

I haven't yet decided if this is actually the intention of the designers or just your interpretation of it. Certainly, one reading of the example of play, is even though it is stated as a question, the player has given an goal and an approach. However, if that is the case, then the player must first guess what might possibly be hidden or wrong in the scene before even being allowed to test if his character notices what is hidden or wrong, which does in fact imply "pixel bitching" to a very high degree. For example, if that is the strict intent, then if the player said, "Are the gargoyles large enough to hide behind?" or "What sort of stone are the gargoyles made of?" or "Are the gargoyles carved in the Moldavian style?" or "Are the gargoyles male or female figures?" or whatever, then the Gm would be perfectly in his rights to not even give the player a chance to notice the gargoyles are living beings even while intently studying them. There is a certain Gygaxian "skillful play" logic to the idea that the player will eventually as a player learn that gargoyles are potentially alive, but it seems to go beyond even Gygaxian naturalism and I doubt very many readers have interpreted it that way.

This sums up my objections nicely. Well put.
 

pogre

Legend
I am a DM mostly, but I do play occasionally.

It would take a lot for me to leave a game mid-session, but not much for me to leave a campaign.

If I do not feel a good chemistry with the other players or the DM, I usually just tell them I am not a good fit and move on.
 

billd91

Not your screen monkey (he/him)
I said "why?" and I realized that role playing, or careful character playing isn't needed in 5e, it is just how you rig your stats for this never-ending assault of skill checks. I didn't have to do anything and could have blundered in carrying 5000 lbs of gp since nobody does encumbrance, and rolled the same silly dice. I wasn't needed for this character, just my sheet was. I decided that that DM wasn't for me.

Don't go blaming 5e for your DM's dumb call. The rules offer encouragement to adjudicate and only use rolls when success is actually in question - it's not the edition's fault your DM didn't heed that advice.
 

Sadras

Legend
You can do that but you won't have me as player. (Aren't there some optional flanking rules somewhere in the official sources that could be used?)

That is fair. We do use the optional flanking rules in the DMG.

Just to be clear, your objection is house rules being made on the spot? Generally our house rules usually originate in-game and get carried forward to future sessions and campaigns.
 

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