JiffyPopTart
Bree-Yark
Thanks for coming back to keep us updated. Nice to see something get some closure on the internet.
D&D 5E Revisiting material components - enforcing in a game focused on resource-management
Chaosmancer
Legend
I agree, thanks for letting us know how everything turned out.
As an aside... i see the fighter can grapple, shove improvised weapon as mostyl the same as "caster can cast non-material spells" and this should be something the casters consider when selecting spells, just like a fighter should consider grapple shove etc when they select skills.
My next campaign features a harvestable "commodity" for the "costly components" (two plants, with crafting for improvement and a sub-economy aspect to it) and allows the player to chose their trivial (non-costly) components epell to spell based on examples i provide for each school. So, no more "how many tarts can i fit in a pouch or what the heck is wychwood.
Yes. And you know why? This is why:
I cast a spell. Oops, now I'm out of components. I need to take a side quest (probably binding up the *whole party* just to enable my basic class function). And during the side quest... I have to cast spells! Oops! Now I'm out of other components! Lather, rinse, repeat on the material component hamster wheel.
The search for material components is a pain. It is flavorful, but that flavor only applies to one party member - the rest are entirely uninterested with exactly how many ounces of bat guano Fizban has in his pouch. They are probably even less interested in helping Fizzy go dig up more guano. Because... ew.
Are you tracking wear and tear on swords? And do you have the fighter go hunt down exotic ores every few adventures for reforging a blade? Do the rouges need to go hunt giant spiders for silk for new rope? No? Even if you do track wear and tear, you let the fighters and rogues just throw money at their problems? Then there's a bit of inequality there.
How about: Give a spell pouch some number of spell levels worth of "charges", that have to be replaced. Use cash. It is now hooked into your resource management, just like the other classes are.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Umbran, I'm not sure you read through my posts in the thread. My proposed change was simply that you needed the component to learn the spell, but that after that you could use a focus in lieu of components per raw. You could also use components as a backup. You only lose your ability to cast a spell if (1) it requires a material component, (2) you don't have a focus on hand, and (3) you don't have the material component on hand.
Ultimately, as I posted most recently, my party decided to stick with RAW. For the campaign I'll be running, we decided it was not adding enough interesting flavor to make up for the extra burden, as small as it is.
I have though of running a home brew campaign where the entire party consists of wizards in a low-magic world where magic is looked upon with suspicion or worse, and where seeking spells and spell components would be among the primary plot hooks throughout the campaign (whether the larger theme become one of striving for power or saving the world, etc., would depend on the choices the players make). So, I still hold that there remains a place for the seeking and tracking of spell components.
Ultimately, as I posted most recently, my party decided to stick with RAW. For the campaign I'll be running, we decided it was not adding enough interesting flavor to make up for the extra burden, as small as it is.
I have though of running a home brew campaign where the entire party consists of wizards in a low-magic world where magic is looked upon with suspicion or worse, and where seeking spells and spell components would be among the primary plot hooks throughout the campaign (whether the larger theme become one of striving for power or saving the world, etc., would depend on the choices the players make). So, I still hold that there remains a place for the seeking and tracking of spell components.
MNblockhead
A Title Much Cooler Than Anything on the Old Site
Okay, now that it has been decided not to impose any requirement to find or track any physical components whatsoever, why have component pouches at all?
If a wizard finds a spell in a dungeon, is it assumed that the material component just happens to be in the wizard's pouch? Does the wizard need to get to civilized area where the material components and fine ink can be found, or can they spend two hours holed up in a dungeon or in a wilderness camp and just subtract 50 gp that was somehow spent?
If you are going to ignore material components, why not just do away with component bags and Material components all together?
I'm tempted to simply change any spell that lists a material component WITHOUT A VALUE as Wand/Staff/Holy Symbol? There should be 4 types of components: verbal, somatic, focus, and material. Material would only be for items with a value. The cost represented by the 50 GP is for the special fine inks needed to record it. A wizard can stock up on the ink and record the spell into a spell book anywhere the wizard can safely spend 2 hours copying it.
Keep low-value ingredients for potions. Ignore them for spells.
In the nearly four years that I've been running 5e, component pouches have never been used. Trinkets have more flavor and utility than material components in 5e. I understand the call back to tradition, but I'm close to just saying that you have to have a focus and the only material components other than focuses that can be used to cast spells are those with values listed in the spell description.
If a wizard finds a spell in a dungeon, is it assumed that the material component just happens to be in the wizard's pouch? Does the wizard need to get to civilized area where the material components and fine ink can be found, or can they spend two hours holed up in a dungeon or in a wilderness camp and just subtract 50 gp that was somehow spent?
If you are going to ignore material components, why not just do away with component bags and Material components all together?
I'm tempted to simply change any spell that lists a material component WITHOUT A VALUE as Wand/Staff/Holy Symbol? There should be 4 types of components: verbal, somatic, focus, and material. Material would only be for items with a value. The cost represented by the 50 GP is for the special fine inks needed to record it. A wizard can stock up on the ink and record the spell into a spell book anywhere the wizard can safely spend 2 hours copying it.
Keep low-value ingredients for potions. Ignore them for spells.
In the nearly four years that I've been running 5e, component pouches have never been used. Trinkets have more flavor and utility than material components in 5e. I understand the call back to tradition, but I'm close to just saying that you have to have a focus and the only material components other than focuses that can be used to cast spells are those with values listed in the spell description.
My answer to your why not would be yes exactly why not get rid of them.
Do having little tarts in a pouch make your character more awesome?
Or was it the rotten eggs and skunk cabbage?
How many cups of water does your component pouch hold?
I prefer if material are used for them to add thematic flavor to the campaign or to the character - not to be essentially immersion breaking comic relief - but then I dont tun toon games anymore where pies to the face is considered powerful.
As I said above, the changes for my upcoming game allow players great freedom in their trivial components and establish an actual basis economy from harvest to use to craft refine and sell for the "costly" bits which means like any other useful item the players have options for acquisition and investment and so it's a part of the whole - not focusing on just one character.
Going with a focus that can be charged up for the costly spells seems an obvious candidate.
Chaosmancer
Legend
Honestly? I'm good with that.
I rarely have players find spells out in dungeons (I rarely have people who want to play a wizard so it often isn't a treasure item the group is interested in) and focuses cover 99% of all instances.
And the ones they don't... I tend to end up ignoring, just like I ignore handedness. Unlike a lot of the fantasy from the games origins, we have a lot of fantasy stories now where magic simply needs an amulet or wand, and not a vast array of different materials for each spell. And when they do require that, we are simply talking rituals.
But mostly, tracking things is boring. It can add some realism, some fun with the right group, but we just want to get on with the story and not worry about those nitty-gritty details. I have a player right now who is playing "the dad" of the group and has been buying all the food for the group as they travel, he asked me how many days worth of supplies felt reasonable to purchase and I just told him that as long as he's spending a bit of money in every major town they go through, that will be more than plenty. After all, with RAW, you only need a pound of food every few days and we've got a cleric in the party so create food and create water are options.
Material Components are listed because of tradition, but ignoring them is baked into the game and I haven't had a problem with that yet.
Focus and others components are born in fantasy writing.
They add challenge and thrill to magic use, but usually the main character recover everything he need before the final fight.
A reader usually have fun following its hero trying to recover its magic focus during a whole chapter.
A DnD player may have a hard time, while its character is stuck in a dungeon without most of its spell during multiple session. while the other players are fully functional. The pacing and experience of a written story and a DnD game is not quite the same.
They add challenge and thrill to magic use, but usually the main character recover everything he need before the final fight.
A reader usually have fun following its hero trying to recover its magic focus during a whole chapter.
A DnD player may have a hard time, while its character is stuck in a dungeon without most of its spell during multiple session. while the other players are fully functional. The pacing and experience of a written story and a DnD game is not quite the same.
aco175
Legend
I tend to have PCs drop a few gp each time they are in town over upkeep costs. Most of the players have been playing a long time and handwave things like buying a new shirt since the last one is covered in blood or sharpening your sword. This covers basic components and arrows and other minor things.
I have in the past created greater spell components. Things that can be used over and over and now there is no need to get tarts or oak bark. I tend to have them for each school and they cover components less than 100gp. Typically these are rare and have a gp equivalent in the 500-1000gp range. In 5e I also let wands of the war mage function similar in that they can cast spells with more component cost value.
Expanding components can lead to many quests and side ventures. In 2e days, we had a whole campaign around getting components, and magic item ingredients, for a high level mage. We ended up befriending giants to give them manicures for their fingernails and setting up counseling services for pixies to capture their tears. There was also many monsters needing to be killed to butcher them up for whatever organ was needed. We finally killed a red dragon only to make more money off the carcass than what was in the hoard. between bones, teeth, scales, and blood we ended up selling parts across the country and had merchants ferrying them to parts unknown. Mages from other lands eventually heard about the death and send emissaries and thieves to get some of the parts. It was a fun campaign overall, but involved a lot of bookkeeping.
I have in the past created greater spell components. Things that can be used over and over and now there is no need to get tarts or oak bark. I tend to have them for each school and they cover components less than 100gp. Typically these are rare and have a gp equivalent in the 500-1000gp range. In 5e I also let wands of the war mage function similar in that they can cast spells with more component cost value.
Expanding components can lead to many quests and side ventures. In 2e days, we had a whole campaign around getting components, and magic item ingredients, for a high level mage. We ended up befriending giants to give them manicures for their fingernails and setting up counseling services for pixies to capture their tears. There was also many monsters needing to be killed to butcher them up for whatever organ was needed. We finally killed a red dragon only to make more money off the carcass than what was in the hoard. between bones, teeth, scales, and blood we ended up selling parts across the country and had merchants ferrying them to parts unknown. Mages from other lands eventually heard about the death and send emissaries and thieves to get some of the parts. It was a fun campaign overall, but involved a lot of bookkeeping.
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