D&D 5E What DM flaw has caused you to actually leave a game?

[pemerton]

Obviously. Backgrounding can't be done for major campaign elements. If we're playing a post apocalyptic setting a la Mad Max, then backgrounding a motorcycle couldn't be done. Sorry, I thought we had made this clear earlier.

In any event it seems self-evident, such that it's weird you have to state it!

Presumably, thought, some posters think that the GM has a unilateral power to define "major campaign element" - that this is not something where the players might also have authority.

Wow, that's harsh.

<snip>

ejecting a player because his character died just wouldn't even be a consideration.

I can half-imagine this for some sort of club game, though even there it's not something I've ever encountered. For a social game with friends I find it almost inconceivable! Lose one hand and you're not welcome back to cards night!

 

[Hussar]

In any event it seems self-evident, such that it's weird you have to state it!

Presumably, thought, some posters think that the GM has a unilateral power to define "major campaign element" - that this is not something where the players might also have authority.

I can half-imagine this for some sort of club game, though even there it's not something I've ever encountered. For a social game with friends I find it almost inconceivable! Lose one hand and you're not welcome back to cards night!

Actually, I don't think it's weird.

Look at the counter examples that have been tossed up. All the "whaddabout's" about backgrounding the Enterprise in a Star Trek game, backgrounding a T-rex or an Allosaurus, I'm sure there have been more.

Just to go back a second though to the idea of the DM capturing the party off screen. Let's be honest here, most groups are going to not do this. It never works as well as the DM thinks it will and it's, by and large, considered a very bad idea. It's right up there with trying to run labyrinths and DMPC's on the list of DM BAD IDEAS.

So, most groups won't do it. But, think about it for a second. Capturing the PC's is hardly a genre breaking event. It happens all the time in genre fiction. And, really, it's often quite plausible as well. But, still, we, as DM's don't do it. Because we know our players will hate it. It's a pretty good example of the sort thing that gets backgrounded for exactly the same reason - because no one at the table wants to do it. We background stuff because dealing with it isn't any fun.

It has nothing to do with powergaming or consequences or anything like that. We do it because the alternative is grinding the game through stuff that no one at the table actually wants to do.

 

[Lanefan]

I already gave examples. In Star Wars Luke romances with Leia. Later on he, and we the audience, discover they are siblings. This gives a very different - incestuous - meaning to that romancing.

But still doesn't change anything that was done, said or felt at any time before that knowledge was obtained. All that changes is the hindsight view of it.

And we're not talking about what one might think on seeing Star Wars 4-5-6 for a second or third or seventieth time, when that meta-knowledge is already in the audience's consciousness. We're talking about the viewer's first time through, without the benefit of hindsight, as we will always be* in an RPG discussion.

* - unless you can think of anyone who's ever said "that campaign was so great, let's repeat it verbatim!"; I sure can't.

 

[Hussar]

Wow, that was faster than I thought. I found the pdf right away. Cool. Here's the text from Chronica Feudalis (p 6)

Backgrounds
Backgrounds are inspired by a marvelous idea that Brother James had. James
always wants to play romantic characters, like the heroes of those French stories.
But none of us, being monks, are ever comfortable hearing the descriptions
of physical love that result from these romances. You should see Adam’s
face scrunch up if anyone mentions kissing when the target is something other
than a bishop’s ring. Therefore, backgrounds were invented as a solution to this
problem.
A background, like an aspect, is a description of some quality of your character,
usually something your character is vastly expert at. But it comes with an
agreement that the subject of the background need never come up, at least in
detail or mechanically, within the narrative of the game. A background is for
things that happen briefly, between scenes and in the periphery of the story that
deserve only a passing mention. As such, backgrounds need not have ranks.
They are simply phrases by themselves. James usually writes something like
Romantic lover.

((Note, this is continued from p 19 for further explanation))

Backgrounds
Do you remember the story of Brother James and his romantic characters?
Well, it is time to think of what you least desire to see in your game sessions.
A background is expressed as something your protagonist is good at. In fact,
she is such an expert that it would be a waste of time to challenge her with this
particular facet of life. If I were to abhor violence—well, which I do, but I like to
imagine a little bit of it in my game—I could pick Sword master as a background
instead of an aspect. William would now know that I do not want combat and
violence within the narrative of the game. Certainly, there might be a passing
mention of how I vanquished some foe at the battle of something or other, or
of how I defeated a rival in a duel. But all these happen, as the dramatists say,
off-stage. What happens on-stage is the types of things we players enjoy, what
we have written down as aspects.
Backgrounds do not have ranks. They are neither invoked nor are they compelled.
They exist merely to give us a little more information about your character
and indicate the types of things your character does in the background of
play.
It is always a good idea, as it is with aspects, to discuss these things collaboratively
even if just to make sure that there is some theme or subject left to play
on-stage.
You may write up to three backgrounds. If you cannot think of any subject
you wish to avoid in such a way, you need not take any background at all.
As per usual, James will write Romantic lover as a background
for his character. The outlaw’s amorous behavior is
well known throughout the land, but those exploits will not
be a focus of our adventures.

((The next page is a bunch of key words for things you might want to background in the game - omitted for brevity))

 

[Lanefan]

I'd point out that most of the ballooning has been done by those who are trying to "prove" that backgrounding is somehow bad. I mean, we started with a simple bear companion that somehow morphed into a T-Rex.

Bears can wildshape too, didn'tcha know?

It says so right here in this rulebook that I...erm...uh...can't seem to find right now, but I know it's in there!

 

[Sadras]

Captured PCs works better as a preliminary adventure (The Great Escape from B9) or may be used as a way to possibly mitigate a TPK (IMO).

EDIT: I did use it once in a high-level game in Avernus, but it was in an effort to play a high-stakes political game between various persona's vying for control over the first level of hell - which each participant attempting to recruit the PCs for his/her own gain.

 

[Lanefan]

Just to go back a second though to the idea of the DM capturing the party off screen. Let's be honest here, most groups are going to not do this. It never works as well as the DM thinks it will and it's, by and large, considered a very bad idea.

Tell that to the writers of the old A-series modules. There's an auto-capture in there, and it leads to some potentially very interesting play afterwards (for the first half of A4 anyway; the second half is kinda painful and IMO best done differently somehow).

It's right up there with trying to run labyrinths and DMPC's on the list of DM BAD IDEAS.

Labyrinths and mazes can be great fun once in a while, but it's easy to overdo it.

So, most groups won't do it. But, think about it for a second. Capturing the PC's is hardly a genre breaking event. It happens all the time in genre fiction. And, really, it's often quite plausible as well.

Agreed.

But, still, we, as DM's don't do it. Because we know our players will hate it.

Are you sure about that, that the players will hate it? Again, it's not something you want to be doing all the time, but once in a while capturing the party and letting them figure out how to escape and re-equip themselves can be a fine change of pace for all involved.

 

[Hussar]

Captured PCs works better as a preliminary adventure (The Great Escape from B9) or may be used as a way to possibly mitigate a TPK (IMO).

EDIT: I did use it once in a high-level game in Avernus, but it was in an effort to play a high-stakes political game between various persona's vying for control over the first level of hell - which each participant attempting to recruit the PCs for his/her own gain.

Yeah, I agree with this. It's mostly corner case stuff though. As a general rule, it's not terribly unfair to say that capture scenarios are a bad idea.

 

[Sadras]

@Hussar, I think the background idea has some merit.
At session 0 most of what comes up is - selecting a setting, cosmology, level of magic, the difficulty, playable races/classes, published material allowed, house rules, genre...etc. What hardly or never comes up (at least at my table) is what each player perhaps likes least. It would be a good way for the DM to gauge what would be most enjoyable at the table by backgrounding some of these story components

Whether I'd agree to background something as pivotal as a Warlock's patron would largely depend primarily on my knowledge of the player and his/her maturity level, length of the campaign and the overall campaign story.

 

[pemerton]

Actually, I don't think it's weird.

Sorry, what do you think is not weird?

I thought it was weird that you have to state that "backgrounding" won't apply to major campaign elements (like a motorbike in a post-apocalyptic game) because that seemed self-evident. If that's what you're responding to, can you say a bit more because I didn't quite get it the first time!