Brand new DM to 5E and many concerns...

ad_hoc

(they/them)
That's probably what I'll do. I was already planning on doing session-based leveling (2 for 2nd, 3 for 3rd, etc.) so I can advance the characters at a rate I think (having not played it before...) will work well. Even that might have to be changed though.

The experience table is designed for tier 1 to go very quickly anyway.

1/2 session for level 1
1 session for level 2
2 sessions for level 3 and 4.

Then it greatly slows down at 5. Tier 2, levels 5-10, is the sweet spot the game is designed around.

After 11 it speeds up greatly again.
 

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WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
The experience table is designed for tier 1 to go very quickly anyway.

1/2 session for level 1
1 session for level 2
2 sessions for level 3 and 4.

...

LOL, if it is designed to advance so quickly, why even bother with the lower levels? Every character might as well begin at 3rd or 4th level and call it a day.

Oh, and in your simulation, I am guessing the wizard hit just as often as the fighter, right? ;-)
 

dave2008

Legend
Guess I was hoping 5E would go a better direction. I have to explain to my new players how all this works. Basically, D&D now seems too much to me like a video game... I'll give it a try, but I have a feeling I'm going to be putting my core books up on ebay in the next few months.

LOL - seems like every edition someone complains that D&D is like a video game!
 


jgsugden

Legend
D&D is a complex weave of many different interacting rules. It also aims to achieve a balance that is not easy to measure mathematically. In essence, it is balanced when every class is fun. 5E does this very well.

I suggest anyone playing the game try it for 6 months with no variant rules (except feats/variant humans) or home rules before they make any changes. It provides a deeper understanding of the rules before they assume things based upon prior editions - like that it is a good idea to give a benefit for flanking.
 

dave2008

Legend
Well, TwoSix, reading about the Bounded Accuracy concept behind 5E was what disappoints me. I never found any problem with the idea that a group (even large) of goblins and such should not be any real threat to higher level characters. As characters became more powerful, getting strong magical items went hand-in-hand with getting more powerful spells. Facing stronger foes that would crush lower-level characters was exciting at upper levels. To me such things made the game heroic on a classic scale. The escalator effect, or whatever it is called, was never an issue.

I have been thinking about it this afternoon, and I think an easy fix might be to do something like this:

Hit Dice is d10 or better, use Proficiency Bonus (PB) to Attack rolls, use PB - 2 for Skill Checks.
Hit Dice is d8, use PB -1 for Attack rolls and Skill Checks.
Hit Dice is d6, use PB -2 for Attack rolls, but PB for Skill Checks. For spells requiring an Attack roll, maybe use full PB still... I'll have to think about it.
Saves and other Ability checks use full PB for any type of HD.

But also I like the idea of Armor giving DR instead of increasing AC. It makes more sense. The target is still struck by a weapon, but the armor protects the wearer from the blow, taking all or some of the impact.

Anyway, I could go on and on, but that wasn't the point of the OP. The argument seems to be Fighters are balanced (for the most part) as is and Burning Hands (and similar) won't unbalance things either. But, if you have any suggestions I am listening LOL. :)

I have some suggestions we use in one of my groups, since you mentioned AC as DR and you seem to like "grittier" combat. FYI, this is based in part on actual play experience that monsters actually have to few hit points - despite your gut reaction.

Everything is the same with the following additions:

1) Bloodied hit points (semi taken from 4e). Each creature and PC gets bloodied hit points. This is based on size, str, & con and doesn't change as you level (you can increase it by taken a feat). Once you have used up your HP, you remove damage from your BHP. Once your BHP reach 0 you die (no death saving throws). You also take damage to your BHP on a critical hit. So a crit from a heavy hitter is always very dangerous. BHP represents actual bodily damage. HP (figured normally) is all stamina, luck, etc. and never represents serious damage. HP can be recovered normally, BHP recovers at 1 HP per week of rest (or by magic or by healers kit).

2) AC as DR. AC is figured and used normally. However, armor also has DR. Take the armors AC and subtract 10. That is the DR value of the armor. However, the DR is only used when you take BHP damage (as that is the only time you are actually "hit"). So if a hit would reduce your BHP (because you are out of HP or it was a crit), then that damage is first reduced by your DR.

It works well for out group.
 

dave2008

Legend
LOL, if it is designed to advance so quickly, why even bother with the lower levels? Every character might as well begin at 3rd or 4th level and call it a day.

Flexibility. Some people like squishy earlier levels, and you are not required to level at that rate. We use milestones not XP for leveling.

For those that don't like squishy they can start at 3rd level. You will notice that some significant class features are spread through the first 3 levels.

It is pretty elegant as it gives you a good deal of flexibility in the type of play.
 

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WhosDaDungeonMaster

Guest
I have some suggestions we use in one of my groups, since you mentioned AC as DR and you seem to like "grittier" combat. FYI, this is based in part on actual play experience that monsters actually have to few hit points - despite your gut reaction.

Everything is the same with the following additions:

1) Bloodied hit points (semi taken from 4e). Each creature and PC gets bloodied hit points. This is based on size, str, & con and doesn't change as you level (you can increase it by taken a feat). Once you have used up your HP, you remove damage from your BHP. Once your BHP reach 0 you die (no death saving throws). You also take damage to your BHP on a critical hit. So a crit from a heavy hitter is always very dangerous. BHP represents actual bodily damage. HP (figured normally) is all stamina, luck, etc. and never represents serious damage. HP can be recovered normally, BHP recovers at 1 HP per week of rest (or by magic or by healers kit).

2) AC as DR. AC is figured and used normally. However, armor also has DR. Take the armors AC and subtract 10. That is the DR value of the armor. However, the DR is only used when you take BHP damage (as that is the only time you are actually "hit"). So if a hit would reduce your BHP (because you are out of HP or it was a crit), then that damage is first reduced by your DR.

It works well for out group.

First off, thanks for the suggestions. The BHP reminds me of the system using Vitality and Wounds from D20 Star Wars. I always liked the Vitality/Wounds concept, and I have used similar systems in D&D before as they are more our style of play. I might do the same with 5E, but as others have suggested we're going to try it for a while RAW and then discuss possible changes within our group.
 

dave2008

Legend
First off, thanks for the suggestions. The BHP reminds me of the system using Vitality and Wounds from D20 Star Wars. I always liked the Vitality/Wounds concept, and I have used similar systems in D&D before as they are more our style of play. I might do the same with 5E, but as others have suggested we're going to try it for a while RAW and then discuss possible changes within our group.

That is a good plan!
 

Charlaquin

Goblin Queen (She/Her/Hers)
LOL, if it is designed to advance so quickly, why even bother with the lower levels? Every character might as well begin at 3rd or 4th level and call it a day.
To ease players into their classes. You'll also notice that most classes pick up a subclass at 2nd or 3rd level. 3rd is about the time that most classes really come into their own. It also provides, for those who want it, a more “zero to hero” experience, where you start off with almost no class features and work your way up to being a full member of your class, and a higher lethality start to the game. If you’re not interested in those things, you can absolutely start at 3rd or 4th level.
 

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