D&D 5E What do you want in a Dark Sun book (sans psionics)?

[dave2008]

So long as they design it on the basis that Athasian races are the only ones that exist, I suppose I don't mind exactly what the verbiage is.

What would that look like? How is a DS human different from FR human for example?

FYI, I have never played DS nor read the books in detail, but I am familiar with the setting.

 

[Parmandur]

What would that look like? How is a DS human different from FR human for example?

FYI, I have never played DS nor read the books in detail, but I am familiar with the setting.

Psionics: everyone has them. Honestly, I expect that they will handle Athasian versions of all Races, including Humans, the same way that Dragonmarks were addressed via new Variant and Subrace options.

 

[Mecheon]

or example new races arriving from the Kalidnay, the dark domain in the demiplane of the dread (Ravenloft).

Kalidnay was a terrible idea, along with the 'let's drag Soth into Ravenloft' thing they pulled back then

I see 'em throwing in Genasi because they're an easy fit to Dark Sun's various stuff and, if including Dray, I'd be looking more at what Wildemount did with Dragonborn rather than the base, but I don't see many expansions beyond that.

(I mean there is my hope that gnomes end up the default 'lost ancient race with mysterious technology' for Athas because that'd be hilarious, but, yeah.)

 

[toucanbuzz]

What would that look like? How is a DS human different from FR human for example?

FYI, I have never played DS nor read the books in detail, but I am familiar with the setting.

In original form:

• Stronger. The weakest have been winnowed from Athas. Hence why on Athas players rolled bigger dice for ability scores, which could now surpass the previous cap of 18 and get to 20. Base size was also bigger than typical FR human.
• Mutations normal. This wasn't heavily emphasized, but humans were prone to cosmetic physical mutations.
• More likely to have a wild psionic talent (in AD&D psionics, non-humans had 1/2 the chance)

In a 5E form, there's probably little need to create an Athasian human subtype.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

What would that look like? How is a DS human different from FR human for example?

FYI, I have never played DS nor read the books in detail, but I am familiar with the setting.

Humans are the least changed - but like everyone in DS they have psionics as a baseline.

All the other races are more changed. I think in most cases they'd be fine as a subrace:

Dwarfs - Taller and heavier than AD&D Dwarves, are way more obsessed with their tasks, too getting a mechanic called "focus" - in 5E this might give Proficiency or Advantage on certain rolls. This is a huge deal - they can change their focus (but it has to be a task that is likely to take at least 1 week), but if they die with the task unfinished, they become banshees! DS art typically depicts them as beardless.

Elves - extremely tall and skinny (6'6" to 7'6"), incredible endurance runners, nomadic non-civilized culture. Resistant to heat and cold.

Half-Elves - Athasian Half-Elves are particularly outcast and self-reliant, rather being being big friends with everyone. They learn survival and get an animal companion. Probably change to +2 WIS instead of +2 CHA.

Half-Giant - 10-12ft tall (so no pretending they're not size L), 1600lb massive, well half-giants (the 4E deal where they were Goliaths was just stupid, and I say that liking both 4E and Goliaths, note). Always Lawful in alignment in 2E, but I suspect that could change to a mechanic of some kind in 5E. It's hard to say exactly how their other racial traits could work in 5E without being OP - in 2E they got +4 STR +2 CON and -2 to INT/WIS/CHA, and they doubled their HD rolls (before CON mod). I think really they should develop a 5E equivalent of 3E's "level adjustment" for them, and as everyone else starts at 3rd, them starting at third but getting effectively otherwise being L1 (and thus staying 2 levels behind) could work pretty well. I suspect just maxing their HD rolls would be fine - it's not much more than the Toughness Feat, which is legendarily

Weirdly they weren't much of a problem in 2E, and people weren't even that keen on playing them.

Halflings - Terrifying little cannibals with a kind of Darmok and Jalad thing going on. Ability-wise they're basically Halflings so could definitely be a subrace.

Humans - more exciting colours than usual (including ones not regarded as human), and then tend to be mutated in minor ways (as befits a post-apocalypse).

Mul - Half-Dwarf, Half-Human, all endurance. 6'+, completely hairless, ripped, and capable of working for literally days on end without any kind of rest (beyond eating/drinking). Sterile. Bred as slaves. Had +2 STR, +1 CON in 2E, probably would in 5E too. They'd probably ignore the first two levels of Exhaustion they acquired in 5E (at least), and that would refresh on a long rest.

Thri-Kreen - Massive (size L again, but I suspect M versions would be okay, I guess, and I'm pretty sure they used size M weapons, because their limbs aren't that big) Praying Mantises who can talk and think and so on (not humanoid at all). 4 limbs (doesn't give extra attacks, though they can bite as well - probably make that a bonus action in 5E), significant natural armour (AC5 in 2E, probably AC13 or 14 in 5E, because natural ACs tend to be lower), bite and claw attacks (only 1d4 damage though), massive leap (20' up or 50' fowards), know how to throw crystal chakrams, can dodge missiles due to fast reflexes. Also at 5th they could paralyze-poison people with their bite (would be a Feat in 5E). +2 DEX +1 WIS, prob. would stay the same in 5E.

Aarakocra are also buzzing around, and could be used largely unaltered (save for adding Psionics). Pterrans we're not going to talk about because they're just dumb rubbish lizardmen and their addition to the setting as a playable race is one of the most inexplicable things that happened in the second 2E boxed set (which was complete drivel compared to the first - I blame the Prism Pentad, some of the worst D&D fantasy novels, which is saying something!

As for later races, Genasi and Dragonborn (Dray) are a natural fit, but Tieflings (sorry guys...) and others... no.

 

[dave2008]

Thank you that was helpful. Seems like it wouldn't be to hard to capture that. I don't think we will get a large sized half-giant though.

Humans are the least changed - but like everyone in DS they have psionics as a baseline.

Can you take the psionics out of DS? I ask because I have always been interested in the setting since see Brom's wonderful artwork; however, I despise psionics. Would it really make a difference if I just removed that aspect?

 

[Mecheon]

(the 4E deal where they were Goliaths was just stupid, and I say that liking both 4E and Goliaths, note)

Ever since 3E, Half Giants have been Medium. There's basically no way they're coming back as Large in this edition. And Goliaths were designed as "Let's take the psionic stuff from Half Giants and replace with mountain survival instead" so, I think we already know how Half Giants are ending up

Would it really make a difference if I just removed that aspect?

Yup. Psionics is Dark Sun's thing.

 

[Parmandur]

Thank you that was helpful. Seems like it wouldn't be to hard to capture that. I don't think we will get a large sized half-giant though.
Can you take the psionics out of DS? I ask because I have always been interested in the setting since see Brom's wonderful artwork; however, I despise psionics. Would it really make a difference if I just removed that aspect?

It's vital to the world's background, and literally every character had those in the prior editions.

Dark Sun is influenced heavily by Planatary Romance like John Carter of Mars, it's an integral part of the package.

 

[Parmandur]

Ever since 3E, Half Giants have been Medium. There's basically no way they're coming back as Large in this edition. And Goliaths were designed as "Let's take the psionic stuff from Half Giants and replace with mountain survival instead" so, I think we already know how Half Giants are ending up


Yup. Psionics is Dark Sun's thing.

Au contraire, we have seen a Large, Psionic Half-Giant prototype for 5E in play:


Working out how to make Large or Tiny PCs is the real final frontier for 5E rules development.

 

[Eltab]

Thank you that was helpful. Seems like it wouldn't be to hard to capture that. I don't think we will get a large sized half-giant though.
Can you take the psionics out of DS? I ask because I have always been interested in the setting since see Brom's wonderful artwork; however, I despise psionics. Would it really make a difference if I just removed that aspect?

Without psionics, the only non-arcane ranged attacker would be the guy with bow-and-arrow, which might make your Ranger feel special until he feels targeted / picked on.

Back during the original run of DS, I did not play but I thought the idea of the setting was to give the other classes a place to shine (because arcane casting attracted lynch mobs or The Authorities). Psionics seemed to be a way to fill in the capability gap with a playable not-Wizard.