D&D and the rising pandemic

[Umbran]

Aren't the vaccines comparatively cheap to even basic things like insulin in the USA?

Well, insured or not, at the moment there is no direct cost for covid vaccines here. The government foots the bill.

The US government has paid an average of about $20/dose for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Pfizer's vaccine reportedly costs about $1.20 per dose to produce, not counting the research beforehand, which is still relevant.

In the US, retail insulin costs $175 to $300 per vial, and most diabetic patients need two or three vials per month. That insulin costs less than $10/vial to make. The research on how to make it is far in the past, and should not be part of current pricing.

 

[Ryujin]

Well, insured or not, at the moment there is no direct cost for covid vaccines here. The government foots the bill.

The US government has paid an average of about $20/dose for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Pfizer's vaccine reportedly costs about $1.20 per dose to produce, not counting the research beforehand, which is still relevant.

In the US, retail insulin costs $175 to $300 per vial, and most diabetic patients need two or three vials per month. That insulin costs less than $10/vial to make. The research on how to make it is far in the past, and should not be part of current pricing.

Not only that, but the original patents for the production of insulin was "sold" to the University of Toronto for the princely sum of $1.00 for each of the researchers, as Banting, Best, and Collip didn't want to profit from the misery of others. Clearly, their example was not followed.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well, insured or not, at the moment there is no direct cost for covid vaccines here. The government foots the bill.

The US government has paid an average of about $20/dose for Pfizer and Moderna vaccines. Pfizer's vaccine reportedly costs about $1.20 per dose to produce, not counting the research beforehand, which is still relevant.

In the US, retail insulin costs $175 to $300 per vial, and most diabetic patients need two or three vials per month. That insulin costs less than $10/vial to make. The research on how to make it is far in the past, and should not be part of current pricing.

Hell at that price I wouldn't be arguing to hard about cost of vaccine. Cost to manufacture is only a small cost of pretty much anything.

One night in hospital is gonna pay for a whole lotta vaccine doses. Vaccines free here along with Covid related prescriptions. They're normally only $3 anyway but I think the doctor fee got waived as well and steroids were free.

US healthcare has its issues it seems vaccine cost/profit isn't one of them.

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Hell at that price I wouldn't be arguing to hard about cost of vaccine. Cost to manufacture is only a small cost of pretty much anything.

I don’t recall if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but at one point in my life, I had the opportunity to read a pharmaceutical company’s report on the actual costs it took to get a particular prescription drug to market.

The most disturbing item on that report (to me) was the advertising/promotions budget. It was fully half of the costs.

Now, I have no problem with a company advertising it’s product. It’s practically required. But this wasn’t just ads directly mailed to MDs and free samples (and tchotchkes) being given to potential prescribers. This included TV spots, radio buys, and ads in regular magazines.

IMHO, there should NEVER be advertising of prescription only medications in general mass media. Especially not in the amounts described in that report. It makes Dr/patient discussions much more difficult.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Yeah, but death in car accidents doesn't factor in maiming in car accidents. Death from cardiovascular issues doesn't count people who have massive brain damage from strokes, but survive, and so on.

I picked one metric to be demonstrative. If you want to broaden out to others, then to keep it apples-to-apples, you have to do that for all the other causes of death. I don't think the general picture changes much if you do that, though.

I'm just suggesting that, in general, death should not be the only metric in how worthwhile addressing a health problem is. I'm not even sold its the most important one.

 

[Zardnaar]

I don’t recall if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but at one point in my life, I had the opportunity to read a pharmaceutical company’s report on the actual costs it took to get a particular prescription drug to market.

The most disturbing item on that report (to me) was the advertising/promotions budget. It was fully half of the costs.

Now, I have no problem with a company advertising it’s product. It’s practically required. But this wasn’t just ads directly mailed to MDs and free samples (and tchotchkes) being given to potential prescribers. This included TV spots, radio buys, and ads in regular magazines.

IMHO, there should NEVER be advertising of prescription only medications in general mass media. Especially not in the amounts described in that report. It makes Dr/patient discussions much more difficult.

I think USA and NZ are the only places it's legal to advertise drugs. Here it's mostly mitigated by Pharmacy so your options are mostly what's available.

Cost of production is peanuts though. Mum was funny as she struggled with $5 milkshakes when the cost to make one was 50 cents.

That applies to most things I used to be able to aquire stuff at cost which was usually around 10% of retail. Freight, wages, rent on stores etc ads up. Or advertising in your context.

 

[Umbran]

I'm just suggesting that, in general, death should not be the only metric in how worthwhile addressing a health problem is.

Well, again, this was to be demonstrative, not a full-on suggestion of how to make policy. If you check other metrics, and I don't expect it'll change the situation.

I'm not even sold its the most important one.

You tell the covid orphans that. I'm not gonna.

 

[Ryujin]

I don’t recall if I mentioned it in this thread or not, but at one point in my life, I had the opportunity to read a pharmaceutical company’s report on the actual costs it took to get a particular prescription drug to market.

The most disturbing item on that report (to me) was the advertising/promotions budget. It was fully half of the costs.

Now, I have no problem with a company advertising it’s product. It’s practically required. But this wasn’t just ads directly mailed to MDs and free samples (and tchotchkes) being given to potential prescribers. This included TV spots, radio buys, and ads in regular magazines.

IMHO, there should NEVER be advertising of prescription only medications in general mass media. Especially not in the amounts described in that report. It makes Dr/patient discussions much more difficult.

As it is every patient with access to Google already thinks they're an expert. I roll my eyes every time I see an ad, on American TV, stating that side effects include possibility of bloating, diarrhea, and death.

EDIT - And, somewhat ironically, one of the cancer meds that's regularly advertised on CNN hit my mother with literally every side effect including, very nearly, a much earlier death.

 

[Thomas Shey]

IMHO, there should NEVER be advertising of prescription only medications in general mass media. Especially not in the amounts described in that report. It makes Dr/patient discussions much more difficult.

It didn't use to be. I've seen different dates claimed in different sources, but it wasn't legal between 1938 and 1987 for sure, and you can argue it wasn't fully so until 1993. The problem is that it ended up being entangled in the push for patients to have the right to informed decisions as to drug choices. That said, I've seen claims that the only place the sort of free-for-all advertising you see in this area is the U.S. and New Zealand.

 

[Thomas Shey]

Well, again, this was to be demonstrative, not a full-on suggestion of how to make policy. If you check other metrics, and I don't expect it'll change the situation.

I would not bet on that if you did proportions, but I'm not sure the data exists in any easily accessible form.

You tell the covid orphans that. I'm not gonna.

I'll let the people who have to take care of those crippled by Long COVID for the rest of their lives, instead. I bet they could make a more compelling case than I could.