WotC may have sent the Pinkertons to a magic leakers home. Update: WotC confirms it and has a response.

[Count_Zero]

Is that a quote? Do we have a recording or something?

From the Kotaku article by Sisi Jiang: Magic: The Gathering YouTuber Says Pinkertons Threatened Him With $200k Fines, Jail

“[The Pinkerton agents] cited several statutes about copyright infringement and some other things threatening 1-10 years in jail and up to $200,000 in fines if I failed to cooperate,” Dan Cannon told Kotaku over an email. “They also said if I didn’t hand over the product, they would call the county sheriff and detain us until they arrived to arrest us and search my house for the product and that they would most likely force us to show receipts for every magic card in the house (which is literally over a million cards).” Kotaku reached out to Wizards of the Coast, but did not receive a comment by the time of publication.

 

[darjr]

I’ve updated the op with a link to that article.

 

[MGibster]

This is an interesting point because I have the feeling even if you're in a 'stand your ground'. However, I would imagine if you hollow point an anyone who is doing their legal job and kill them, you would open yourself up to a civil lawsuit for depriving them of their 14th Amendment right to life. They haven't entered your home. They're at your door, made your wife cry, and are on your property.

As far as I know, a private investigator has no right to force their way onto private property. It doesn't matter if they're on-the-job, because they're just private citizens with no law enforcement powers. i.e. Their legal job does not include trespassing or forcing their way onto private property. While I live in the South, I do not typically answer my door armed, as I keep my duelling pistols locked up next to my grand pappy's ashes. If someone at my door prevents me from closing it, I will respond first with a very firm and impolite set of instructions that they remove their foot and get off my property, and they had best respond favorably because I will manhandle them if they do not remove themselves.

 

[Zardnaar]

So...I am trying very hard to wrap my head around this idea that suing him would somehow have been a kinder, gentler way to handle the situation.

WotC literally did one of the things that you are suggesting: they just talked to him. For whatever reasons, he was not responding to other attempts to communicate, so they sent investigators who literally put him on the phone with WotC, after which the situation was resolved without any lawsuits, and with him even getting product that WotC did not owe him.

This is a guy who somehow came up with their IP and was leaking it to the internet, but they took him at his (eventual) word, gave him a pat on the head, and a nice stack of magic cards. Yet they are the villains here because "the Pinkertons." This does not make any ethical sense to me at all.

Edit: WotC did not create this situation. This guy somehow got his hands on their IP, and was immediately trying to monetize it. They treated him with kid gloves. He is not a victim.

It's not an IP issue. They have no right to the physical product once it changes hands.

1. Cards are stolen. Prove it.

2. Cards were sold early accidentally or not civil matter.

If the Pinkertons implied he could go to jail they're essentially lying to intimidate him. They have no legal right to be on his property or seize any goods even if they were stolen.

A lawyer would have been less intimidating and could have offered him the better deal for co operation vs sending goons squad.

 

[payn]

It's not an IP issue. They have no right to the physical product once it changes hands.

1. Cards are stolen. Prove it.

2. Cards were sold early accidentally or not civil matter.

If the Pinkertons implied he could go to jail they're essentially lying to intimidate him. They have no legal right to be on his property or seize any goods even if they were stolen.

A lawyer would have been less intimidating and could have offered him the better deal for co operation vs sending goons squad.

I think folks are underestimating how dangerous delivering legal documents to strangers is in the U.S.

 

[Zardnaar]

I think folks are underestimating how dangerous delivering legal documents to strangers is in the U.S.

Another reason to stay in NZ drinking hoppy pilsners.

 

[Clint_L]

It's not an IP issue. They have no right to the physical product once it changes hands.

That is an absurd statement. Changing hands is not some magical moment where original property rights are erased. What, you think if I misplace my phone, your buddy picks it up and then hands it to you, you are now the legal owner of the phone? If I come back and say, hey, that's my phone, you can tell me to go suck eggs? You don't believe that.

Edit: I'm out. It is clear that we see property rights completely differently.

 

[Faolyn]

And, I say again, in 2023 calling someone and not leaving voicemail does not constitute talking to someone.

I mean, they didn't talk to him. They didn't communicate with him at all. They didn't convey their message to him. That really indicates they didn't talk to him. I've literally had bot callers of the "your warranty has expired" variety leave voice mail. But WotC couldn't? They couldn't send an email? While I've never watched this guy's videos, the few youtubers I follow put links to their email, twitter, instagram, facebook, or other ways to contact them in their bios. Did this guy not do any of that?

WotC may very well have thought very hard and hoped he picked up on his telepathic messages for all the effort they seem to have put out.

 

[Homicidal_Squirrel]

I mean, they didn't talk to him. They didn't communicate with him at all. They didn't convey their message to him. That really indicates they didn't talk to him. I've literally had bot callers of the "your warranty has expired" variety leave voice mail. But WotC couldn't? They couldn't send an email? While I've never watched this guy's videos, the few youtubers I follow put links to their email, twitter, instagram, facebook, or other ways to contact them in their bios. Did this guy not do any of that?

WotC may very well have thought very hard and hoped he picked up on his telepathic messages for all the effort they seem to have put out.

They did call him. He just didn't answer because he didn't recognize the number. WoTC even admitted it was understandable he wouldn't answer unknown callers, but if he isn't answering, at some point you move on to the next step, whatever that may look like. In this case, it was sending out people they hired to make contact and try to get the cards back. The Pinkerton employees spoke with Cannon. They communicated their point. He, and others, may not like the manner in which they communicated or what they communicated to him, but there was still word sounding vocalizations being produced.

 

[Faolyn]

They did call him. He just didn't answer because he didn't recognize the number. WoTC even admitted it was understandable he wouldn't answer unknown callers, but if he isn't answering, at some point you move on to the next step, whatever that may look like. In this case, it was sending out people they hired to make contact and try to get the cards back. The Pinkerton employees spoke with Cannon. They communicated their point. He, and others, may not like the manner in which they communicated or what they communicated to him, but there was still word sounding vocalizations being produced.

"At some point" you leave a voice mail or send an email. You don't go "whelp, he didn't pick up, time to call in the goon squad."