D&D (2024) Martial vs Caster: Removing the "Magical Dependencies" of high level.

[Hussar]

The idea that nobody cares about MOST combat encounters they play in D&D is...a weird position to take from my perspective. If all I cared about were the boss fights, I wouldn't play D&D. They're not "samey" fights nor "trash mobs", they're just not the boss fight, and of course they matter. This isn't Critical Role or a video game...we're playing a role playing game my man. They play IS the purpose.

And given most groups have more than one non-caster in it, did you really think those players were not having fun with their non-casters?

Not according to this poll: https://www.enworld.org/threads/do-you-see-fighter-players-at-your-own-table.698254/

Just about half of parties in the poll have 2 or more non-casters. That's certainly not "most".

 

[W'rkncacnter]

Not according to this poll: https://www.enworld.org/threads/do-you-see-fighter-players-at-your-own-table.698254/

Just about half of parties in the poll have 2 or more non-casters. That's certainly not "most".

that poll is specifically about level 8+ single-classed fighters. it's certainly a data point, but not really a good one here.

 

[Mistwell]

Not according to this poll: https://www.enworld.org/threads/do-you-see-fighter-players-at-your-own-table.698254/

Just about half of parties in the poll have 2 or more non-casters. That's certainly not "most".

Oh sorry I am short less than 2% of being able to say "most" on a poll of above 7th level play.

Come on Hussar, that was a silly response. An overwhelming majority have at least one in even that poll and nothing you said responds to the point I made. You just trying to win a linguistics game now or do you have an actual response to what I said?

 

[Minigiant]

I just want to be able to chop a dragon's breath, giant's rock, or mage's deathspell in half or reflect it back without taking some complicated feat tree ahead of time.

Or be the classic charming or knowledgeable noble who is skilled with sword.

 

[Hussar]

I realize there is a lot of "following in D&D's footsteps" amongst the larger RPG companies, but if WotC, KP, and Paizo hasn't felt it necessary to load the fighter up with supernatural powers, I seriously wonder if this whole debate isn't a tempest in a teapot...

That's the thing though.

There isn't a debate.

Some of us would like to have a mythic fighter. That's just a fact. We would like to discuss exactly what that mythic fighter would look like. Also a fact.

The only "debate" is people repeatedly threadcrapping in order to derail any conversation. If you (and this is a general you) are not interested in the base premise of the thread, why are you here?

The question is not, "Do we need a mythic fighter?" That's the question you and a bunch of others insist we must have and somehow prove to your satisfaction before we move forward. No, the question is, "How do we make a mythic fighter in D&D and what would that look like?"

A hundred freaking pages of people endlessly threadcrapping is unbelievably frustrating.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

i do find something very fascinating about the rejection of the idea that fighters could achieve supernatural effects with just fantastical training - it's also (almost certainly unintentionally) a rejection of the wizard.

i mean, think about it for a second. wizards don't have supernatural bloodlines (or else they'd be sorcerers). they don't get their powers from a god (or else they'd be clerics) or patron (or else they'd be warlocks). they don't derive their powers from the forces of nature (or else they'd be druids). they study. they research. they learn, and train, and that learning and training eventually lets them literally conjure wishes. so...why can't a fighter train themselves to become fantastically powerful like a wizard can?

I know a lot of people who assume wizards have to be born with a capacity for magic that not everyone has.

 

[Hussar]

Oh sorry I am short less than 2% of being able to say "most" on a poll of above 7th level play.

Come on Hussar, that was a silly response. An overwhelming majority have at least one in even that poll and nothing you said responds to the point I made. You just trying to win a linguistics game now or do you have an actual response to what I said?

I was quibbling your "most" descriptor. Even at 50%, I suppose that's technically "most" in a 50+1% sort of way. Not really how I'd describe it though. Most tables have 1 non-caster and a fairly large chunk have none at all.

 

[Mistwell]

I was quibbling your "most" descriptor. Even at 50%, I suppose that's technically "most" in a 50+1% sort of way. Not really how I'd describe it though. Most tables have 1 non-caster and a fairly large chunk have none at all.

You're spinning. Way more have 2 than 0 and if you were fairly characterizing the poll that would be the focus. Focusing on the minority number as "fairly large chunk" when you quibble with 50% being a majority (in a poll which isn't of all games just 8th level and above) is pretty telling.

And you still have not responded to the point I was making with that post. Like that people like playing those characters.

This doesn't seem like a productive conversation with you anymore Hussar given this trend. You're being dismissive of other people's views at this point with spin.

 

[James Gasik]

I know a lot of people who assume wizards have to be born with a capacity for magic that not everyone has.

And yet, anyone with an Int of 13 (and some other 13) can take a level of Wizard. Anyone with an Int or Wis of 13 can take the Ritual Caster feat, and anyone can take Magic Initiate. So...yeah.

 

[Yaarel]

Which is where stuff like that is going to end up. That and Drivethru.

I am ok with that.

For me, the ap-OGL-ypse made me rethink my expectations.

The indy companies earned from me greater respect and appreciation.

WotC eventually did the right thing, where putting the 5e SRD in the Creative Commons license does resolve the problem.

(LOL! It reminds me what Winston Churchill said about the US government: "You can always count on the Americans to do the right thing, after they have exhausted all the other possibilities.")

Anyway, my take away is.

WotC designs the game strictly on behalf of the majority of players, requiring satisfaction from at least 70% and striving for as many as possible.

This majority framework then shows indy companies how to fill in the demands from the niches.

Indies provide a very important function in 5e.