D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Stealth Rules

[Pauln6]

I think the thing that breaks the stealth rules is allowing passive checks for free (except when an opponent is on guard but I think technically being on guard is actually holding the search action?). I sort of approve of DC15 to stealth as a starting point. It makes group checks in heavy armour achievable with a bit of investment but quite tricky.

Why they are trying to make the invisible condition equivalent to the hidden condition? You can be invisible (cannot be targeted by spells) but not hidden (e.g. heard, smelled, felt).

 

[FitzTheRuke]

your assumption here is: that once I have read through the rules I have memorized them and will never flip through my phb again to put them together.

As a long standing dm with apparently not the best memory, I will kindly disagree

Anything that prevents page flipping won't just do it once in my dm career, it will do it several times over.

Any time they can put rules together with other rules that they reference, is a huge plus in my book. I hate the way that sometimes rules are written in a way (often even taking a bigger word-count!) that seems to wink at the people that know what rule they're subtly referencing. Even when I know what's being referenced, I hate it.

 

[Sir Brennen]

I think the thing that breaks the stealth rules is allowing passive checks for free (except when an opponent is on guard but I think technically being on guard is actually holding the search action?). I sort of approve of DC15 to stealth as a starting point. It makes group checks in heavy armour achievable with a bit of investment but quite tricky.

Why they are trying to make the invisible condition equivalent to the hidden condition? You can be invisible (cannot be targeted by spells) but not hidden (e.g. heard, smelled, felt).

I could be sprayed by a skunk ghast, but as long as I'm behind this wall, nobody can smell me?

But I get what you're saying. Anyone making a Stealth check is trying to be unnoticeable as much as possible, whether becoming hidden, silent, or covering themselves in mud to hide the skunk ghast smell. An invisible creature would still need to make a Stealth check to be truly unnoticed.

I might give advantage on a Stealth check to a creature that turns invisible before a foe enters the room and just stands there. But if they try to sneak out the open door, they're going to have to make another check to do so without being heard.

Really, I think WotC is trying to add the benefits of being invisible to the Hidden condition by making them equivalent, but I think they're going to find out in the feedback that this version of the Hide action is not going to fly.

 

[Pauln6]

I could be sprayed by a skunk ghast, but as long as I'm behind this wall, nobody can smell me?

But I get what you're saying. Anyone making a Stealth check is trying to be unnoticeable as much as possible, whether becoming hidden, silent, or covering themselves in mud to hide the skunk ghast smell. An invisible creature would still need to make a Stealth check to be truly unnoticed.

I might give advantage on a Stealth check to a creature that turns invisible before a foe enters the room and just stands there. But if they try to sneak out the open door, they're going to have to make another check to do so without being heard.

Really, I think WotC is trying to add the benefits of being invisible to the Hidden condition by making them equivalent, but I think they're going to find out in the feedback that this version of the Hide action is not going to fly.

Personally, I would not require an invisible, stationary character to make a stealth check until they do something, such as move. If the monster has special sensory skills though, I might require one sooner.

 

[Sir Brennen]

Personally, I would not require an invisible, stationary character to make a stealth check until they do something, such as move. If the monster has special sensory skills though, I might require one sooner.

Yeah, it's really getting into more DM-call territory, but I could see it. Especially if the creature entering the room had no reason to expect someone was in there.

 

[Horwath]

Personally, I would not require an invisible, stationary character to make a stealth check until they do something, such as move. If the monster has special sensory skills though, I might require one sooner.

3.5e rules could be moved here, that is you are invisible and stationary, you get +20 to stealth. With 5E bounded accuracy, +10 might be better.
So being clumsy(dex 8) and in heavy armor might put your stealth check into noticeable area.

 

[Pauln6]

3.5e rules could be moved here, that is you are invisible and stationary, you get +20 to stealth. With 5E bounded accuracy, +10 might be better.
So being clumsy(dex 8) and in heavy armor might put your stealth check into noticeable area.

It's tricky with static bonuses. Pass without trace gives you +10. Disadvantage on their checks might be better?

 

[renbot]

The new stealth checks are something I'm going to ignore completely. I pretty much hate the entire concept of where they're going. From one person knowing where you are automatically meaning everyone knowing where you are to the static DC 15 check.

There should be a massive difference between hiding from a drunken ogre and Smaug. It makes it significantly more difficult for low level PCs to hide from many standard low level monsters while a rogue of mid-to-high levels will always succeed.

It also doesn't make any sense - you have to have at least 3/4 cover, but then if an enemy can see you you can't hide. Which makes no sense, if they can't see you, don't you have total cover? It also doesn't explain how a monster finds you if you're invisible. Do they have to be actively searching? Can a rogue ever sneak up behind someone otherwise engaged? Does the "invisibility" end if you step out somewhere you can see an enemy, when you're clearly seen, or not until the creatures turn if they spot you?

It's a mess. I understand some people didn't like the old rule (I have no problem with it) but this is FUBAR.

I'm tempted to think that they came up with this version of stealth so people stop complaining about the original version! Which I'm expecting to come back with maybe a tweak or two.

"Oh yeah, you think 2014 stealth is a mess? Hold my beer..."

 

[Oofta]

I think the lack of popular actual-plays of other games is a big culprit in why DND seems so sticky like that; DND itself only exploded into its current popularity because the personalities within Critical Role became very popular, and I guarantee you if they had stuck with Pathfinder there'd probably be a very different landscape by now.

People weren't sending pizzas to those guys just because DND was that cool; they were cool.

Heck, even I only came into the TTRPG scene from cRPGs because I had found in CR a reliable and interesting way to actually see how these games work in action, which eventually lead to me being in the group Im with and then on to writing my own game.

Its really a problem I think just exists with tabletop gaming in general. If you don't have friends or a Lets Play to watch thats doing some newfangled game you've never heard of, you're only going to know games that have broken out into mainstream culture.

And for whatever reason, something about tabletop gaming seems to preclude a lot of exploring of other games. I think its mostly to do with just being able to jump in at any time, friends or no friends, but even then.

I think you're putting the cart before the horse. Or maybe looking at two carts, one with a horse and one without? Or maybe it's just a bad analogy.

In any case, it's not like CR hasn't done one shots in other games. There home game was in Pathfinder, not D&D. They switched to D&D because it presents better for streaming. There are plenty of streams out there if you are just curious about other games. Seems to see that part of what makes D&D popular is much the same thing that makes it work well for streaming.

In addition, Critical Role is not solely responsible for the popularity of D&D. It's helped, but in part I think it's helped just show how fun TTRPGs can be. Not sure how much the specific rule system matters.

 

[Oofta]

I'm tempted to think that they came up with this version of stealth so people stop complaining about the original version! Which I'm expecting to come back with maybe a tweak or two.

"Oh yeah, you think 2014 stealth is a mess? Hold my beer..."

I think that's the best explanation of how they thought this was better I've seen yet!