D&D (2024) Playtest 6: Paladin ... Divine Smite is a Spell now

[Maxperson]

And almost none of these are worth wasting a counterspell on.

So the NPC should allow the caster to misty step right behind him after that attack? Or force him into a duel that he won't do well at? Or allow himself to be deafened and blinded, stunned and/or killed? Or... And that's if he somehow knows what's being cast.

 

[DEFCON 1]

I have to say... there are a lot of hoops having to be jumped through here to set up this situation where a caster with counterspell doesn't know who the armored guy is who casts a spell right after hitting a with weapon, who can't identify the possible spell being cast, and who believes that said spell is actually worth spending one of their few 3rd/4th level spells slots counterspelling it...

...all in an effort to justify why WotC would be wrong to turn Divine Smite from an ability that uses spell slots to a spell that uses spell slots.

Yes, we now know that some players have to or want to jump through those hoops. Which is great, if that works and is preferable for their game. But I will re-iterate that those hoops do not apply to other tables (and dare I say I bet it doesn't apply to most tables) and thus is probably not the strongest argument to make in hopes of convincing WotC to not go through with this change.

After all... if a bunch of us folks here on the boards are not convinced by the argument and are setting up all these scenarios to counter the argument on the one person making them... I'm pretty sure the designers at WotC probably will fall into similar camps. Now granted... I could be wrong! I freely admit that. Maybe the single argument is sound and will work. But does anyone really want to take that chance? If they really thought changing Divine Smite was such a bad idea, coming up with a couple other arguments in addition to this one that is receiving pushback from a bunch of posters might not be the worst idea in the world.

 

[mellored]

So the NPC should allow the caster to misty step right behind him after that attack? Or force him into a duel that he won't do well at? Or allow himself to be deafened and blinded, stunned and/or killed? Or... And that's if he somehow knows what's being cast.

Or allow a paladin to smite him?

 

[Vaalingrade]

...all in an effort to justify why WotC would be wrong to turn Divine Smite from an ability that uses spell slots to a spell that uses spell slots.

I mean, the original sin is Smite having to use spell slots in the first place.

Turning every class feature they can into spells is a latter day sin.

 

[Stalker0]

My only note here. Its true a BBEG probably wouldn't counterspell divine smite. But they sure as heck would want to counter shining smite, that thing is a boss slayer!

The entire party gets advantage on the boss for the rest of the fight!

 

[billd91]

My only note here. Its true a BBEG probably wouldn't counterspell divine smite. But they sure as heck would want to counter shining smite, that thing is a boss slayer!

The entire party gets advantage on the boss for the rest of the fight!

Yeah, but that kind of extra effect on a smite would have come from a smite spell anyway in 5e. So, it's no real change in how any of this would behave.

 

[Sir Brennen]

My only note here. Its true a BBEG probably wouldn't counterspell divine smite. But they sure as heck would want to counter shining smite, that thing is a boss slayer!

The entire party gets advantage on the boss for the rest of the fight!

If the boss is the target. Whether he's the target or not can change the counterspell strategy.

 

[mellored]

I mean, the original sin is Smite having to use spell slots in the first place.

Turning every class feature they can into spells is a latter day sin.

I agree it's kind of annoying that all the classes have spells.

But paladins already have 2 resource pools, and very strong passives. Letting them get even more would be overpowered.

 

[Emberashh]

I mean, the original sin is Smite having to use spell slots in the first place.

Turning every class feature they can into spells is a latter day sin.

Want to use an object?

Just cast Use Object.

And if you don't like it, pretend! Its not like you're already pretending or anything, so who cares about having to pretend to pretend.

 

[Chaosmancer]

They weren't used because you had to cast them before attacking, which made them useless a good amount of the time. If they had been castable after a hit, they'd have seen a lot of use. The bonus effects would have seen to that.

And they still would not have been balanced, because they would cost a bonus action and Divine Smite didn't. This was literally my playtest feedback. If you are going to have an effect that does less damage, because it has a rider, AND a greater cost in the action economy, it isn't going to be balanced. The lessening of the damage balanced out of the rider. Nothing balanced the cost in the action economy of a bonus action needing to be spent for them.

So, there were two choices. All smite abilities were non-action, non-spells. Or all smite abilities were bonus action spells. Nothing else is balanced.

Could be casting Misty Step. Nothing like running up, swinging twice and then teleporting out of attack range, behind rough ground or next to some companions. Could be Compelled Duel. Could be Divine Word or Divine Favor. Could be Ensnaring Strike. Could be Expeditious Retreat. Could be Grasping Vine. Could be lots of different things. The smites are actually in the minority of possible bonus action spells.

Misty Step is not a reaction to hitting with a weapon. Are you saying that the caster cannot know what triggered the spell? That seems strange.

But okay, which of those spells you just listed Misty Step, Compelled Duel, Divine Favor, Ensaring Strike, or Expeditious Retreat are worth counterspelling? I'm not going to count Divine Word because that isn't a paladin spell, and despite your protests there are actually quite a few ways to tell a high level paladin from a high level cleric, or Grasping Vine, because it ALSO isn't a paladin spell.