D&D (2024) If there are no half-elves or half-orcs will there be Tieflings (half fiends)?

[Remathilis]

I instantly have a problem with that feat tax. I can pick elf AND have a level 1 feat, or I can take half-elf and use up my level 1 feat to pick it. Horrible, horrible idea that made people very angry during 4e. Feat taxes are awful..

I can't replicate my lore bard who had rapier and hand crossbow in 2014 without a feat tax. Or my elf diviner who used a longbow without a feat tax. There are some things that in 2014 won't be replicable in 24 without feats. Deal.

II would go with the option not listed. Put in the major ones. Half-elf, half-angel, half-demon, half-orc, and with human as the other half. WotC creates those individually to be on par with the other races. For obscure ones like half-loxodon/half-merfolk, there would be instructions in the DMG for the creation of half races and the DM with or without the player can just make it.

That's... what we have now. Every mixed species is essentially part human or genetically undefined, and you have race design rules buried in the DMG (heck, aasimar WAS the example!) and it's all up to the DM to allow, create and balance your elephant-fish person. Your vote is for the status quo.

 

[Maxperson]

I can't replicate my lore bard who had rapier and hand crossbow in 2014 without a feat tax.

It's not a feat tax if it isn't REQUIRED. Nobody is making you replicate your 2014 lore bard. What you suggest there is an optional desire to enhance your 2024 bard. What you suggest with the race is a feat tax since I can't make a half-elf without the feat. The 2024 half-elf, isn't. It's an elf or human with some pig's lipstick on.

Or my elf diviner who used a longbow without a feat tax. There are some things that in 2014 won't be replicable in 24 without feats. Deal.

False Equivalences are false. You don't NEED the feat to be a 2024 diviner. They didn't make the 2024 diviner a base wizard and then say "here's a feat to use if you want to specialize."

That's... what we have now. Every mixed species is essentially part human or genetically undefined, and you have race design rules buried in the DMG (heck, aasimar WAS the example!) and it's all up to the DM to allow, create and balance your elephant-fish person. Your vote is for the status quo.

Excellent! Then all they need to do is stop being lazy and design the common half-races for real.

 

[Remathilis]

It's not a feat tax if it isn't REQUIRED. Nobody is making you replicate your 2014 lore bard. What you suggest there is an optional desire to enhance your 2024 bard. What you suggest with the race is a feat tax since I can't make a half-elf without the feat. The 2024 half-elf, isn't. It's an elf or human with some pig's lipstick on.

You don't NEED the feat to be a 2024 diviner. They didn't make the 2024 diviner a base wizard and then say "here's a feat to use if you want to specialize."
.

My lore bard didn't need a feat to use those weapons. Now he does. My elf diviner didn't need a feat to use a longbow. Now she does. Your half-elf had two extra skills, now they require a feat. The defining feature of a half-elf is two skills? If so, it REALLY doesn't need to exist anymore.

Excellent! Then all they need to do is stop being lazy and design the common half-races for real.

1000 unique half races coming up!

Oh, right. You only want the ones you like, everyone else can go hang.

 

[Maxperson]

My lore bard didn't need a feat to use those weapons. Now he does.

He doesn't need those weapons to be a lore bard is the point. The feat remains optional. You would like to tax me a feat just to be a half-elf. Apples and oranges.

 

[Remathilis]

He doesn't need those weapons to be a lore bard is the point. The feat remains optional. You would like to tax me a feat just to be a half-elf. Apples and oranges.

Your half-elf doesn't require two free skills either. They never had it prior to 5e. 1e and 2e half-elves had infravision, a chance to find secret doors, and 30% immunity to sleep and charm. 3e had low-light vision a +1 to search, listen and spot, immunity to sleep and +2 to saves vs charm. 3.5 added a +2 to gather information and diplomacy. 4e gives two predetermined skills (diplomacy and insight) just like every other race, plus low-light vision, a first level at will power from a class other than your primary, and can grant allies a minor boost to diplomacy checks. There is nothing intrinsic to getting free skills as a half-elf.

In fact, the only traits that seem consistent are seeing in the dark and resistance to sleep and charm. Both are covered by the elf. My bard's weapon proficiency has more precedent than your half-elf's skills.

Redundant race is redundant.

 

[Maxperson]

Your half-elf doesn't require two free skills either.

He does to be a half-elf. If he's 100% human or 100% elf, he's not HALF at all. Physical appearance won't change that.

They never had it prior to 5e. 1e and 2e half-elves had infravision, a chance to find secret doors, and 30% immunity to sleep and charm.

half human(no abilities) and half-elf. 1e and 2e were different beasts, but half-elves were still unique. Neither 100% human or 100% elf.

3e had low-light vision a +1 to search, listen and spot, immunity to sleep and +2 to saves vs charm. 3.5 added a +2 to gather information and diplomacy. 4e gives two predetermined skills (diplomacy and insight) just like every other race, plus low-light vision, a first level at will power from a class other than your primary, and can grant allies a minor boost to diplomacy checks. There is nothing intrinsic to getting free skills as a half-elf.

Different from both elves and humans, yes? Neither 100% human or 100% elf.

Your examples just prove my point. Half-elves were uniquely distinct from their two parents in all editions(except maybe 4e. Don't know since I didn't play it). You seem to be conflating uniquely different from parent races with abilities unique from both parent races. The latter is not required to make half-elves uniquely distinct.

 

[Frozen_Heart]

My lore bard didn't need a feat to use those weapons. Now he does. My elf diviner didn't need a feat to use a longbow. Now she does. Your half-elf had two extra skills, now they require a feat. The defining feature of a half-elf is two skills? If so, it REALLY doesn't need to exist anymore.




1000 unique half races coming up!

Oh, right. You only want the ones you like, everyone else can go hang.

Half elves had nothing defining them because one of their two component species had absolutely nothing defining them. This isn't a half-elf problem and this isn't a reason for them to lose their entry. Otherwise there is just as much of an argument for removing humans too as they have absolutely nothing which defines them.

The solution to half-elves being boring isn't deleting them. It's giving them unique features which neither parent species has. And give them a unique name while you're at it. In Eberron it's Khoravar, while in Elder Scrolls it's Bretons.

If the entire 'half' lore is distasteful, can even rewrite their default lore to where the mixing happened long ago and they have become their own unique species in many worlds.

 

[CreamCloud0]

My lore bard didn't need a feat to use those weapons. Now he does. My elf diviner didn't need a feat to use a longbow. Now she does.

personally i thought too many classes got full martial proficiency in 5e, or at least 'proficiency in the one martial weapon they'd ever really want to use in the first place'

 

[Remathilis]

personally i thought too many classes got full martial proficiency in 5e, or at least 'proficiency in the one martial weapon they'd ever really want to use in the first place'

Without reiterating my tirade again, they have basically made every caster have to commit to either a cantrip/caster build or a Gish/warrior build. There were cases where you could be a caster and still have a decent weapon, but now you pick one of those two styles and stick with it. Further, some classes who had an iconic weapon no longer do so. It was a rather pointless change except to force needless symmetry between casters.

 

[Remathilis]

Half elves had nothing defining them because one of their two component species had absolutely nothing defining them. This isn't a half-elf problem and this isn't a reason for them to lose their entry. Otherwise there is just as much of an argument for removing humans too as they have absolutely nothing which defines them.

The solution to half-elves being boring isn't deleting them. It's giving them unique features which neither parent species has. And give them a unique name while you're at it. In Eberron it's Khoravar, while in Elder Scrolls it's Bretons.

If the entire 'half' lore is distasteful, can even rewrite their default lore to where the mixing happened long ago and they have become their own unique species in many worlds.

Part of the problem is that the cultural things that could define a half-elf are no longer part of species. Elves and orcs barely have any sort of racial identity beyond what is biological/mechanical and maybe an implied origin.

The Khorvar of Eberron are defined by not adhering to the cultural norms of their elven (aereni and valenar) or human (Five Nations) but blending the traditions. The problem is that you need those traditions to exist and the PHB is scrubbing that kind of racial identity.

And the Bretons are half-elves the same way Elrond and Arwen are half-elves; they may have a little mixed blood but they favor their one parent highly. In the Bretons' case, they are humans who have an affinity for magic that comes from ancestral direnni blood, they are not considered mer. (If I was running TES under 5e, they'd be humans who took magic initiate as their bonus feat).

Unfortunately, because their parents are so bland and boring, they got nothing to work with. And WotC is insisting on making humans and elves blander in 2024.