D&D (2024) Level Zero

[Oofta]

Me: "I want to win this snow fight. The night before I find some wet snow and make snowballs out of it. Then I leave them out overnight..."

You're one of those! Of course if you were really mean, you'd put a rock in it as well to give it a little more oomph.

That or be a guide for boy scouts on a hike up Mount Baldy in New Mexico where there was still snow and start a snowball fight before pulling a Home Simpson and fade into the background. When the tour guide's group was was from Texas who had likely never experienced snow and the other group was from Minnesota, it makes you wonder what the guide had against those kids.

 

[Yaarel]

It doesn't make sense for 0 level PCs who become wizards to lose hit points when they advance to level 1. Start them at d6 like @Horwath suggested, because that's what makes the most sense. Then at level 1 wizards and sorcerers go nowhere, fighters advance to 1d10 gaining 4 hit points, etc.

It adds.

Level 0 Medium size Elf: 5 hit points (or 1d8)
Level 1 Wizard: 4 hit points (or 1d6)

Total Hit Points: 9 hit points

 

[Maxperson]

It adds.

Level 0 Medium size Elf: 5 hit points (or 1d8)
Level 1 Wizard: 4 hit points (or 1d6)

Total Hit Points: 9 hit points

Then that isn't really going from 0 to 1. A wizard at level 1 doesn't have that many hit points. Level 1 is effectively becoming 1.5 or something.

 

[Maxperson]

You're one of those! Of course if you were really mean, you'd put a rock in it as well to give it a little more oomph.

Look. I want to win, not kill them!

That or be a guide for boy scouts on a hike up Mount Baldy in New Mexico where there was still snow and start a snowball fight before pulling a Home Simpson and fade into the background. When the tour guide's group was was from Texas who had likely never experienced snow and the other group was from Minnesota, it makes you wonder what the guide had against those kids.

 

[Charlaquin]

Yeah, level 0 is already here, just --like a lot of other things in 5e -- mislabeled as level 1 and 2.

I'd like to get levels 19 and 20.

I’d be fine with shifting the labels so that what is currently called “3rd level” becomes 1st level, and the current levels 1 and 2 become -1 and 0 respectively. In that case I’d still want a -2 with only race and background features and no class features. What number the levels have doesn’t really matter to me, though 5e does seem to prefer avoiding negative numbers.

 

[Yaarel]

Then that isn't really going from 0 to 1. A wizard at level 1 doesn't have that many hit points. Level 1 is effectively becoming 1.5 or something.

Current rules, Level 1 Wizard hit points: 6 hit points.

Level Zero rules, Level 0 Medium Size + Level 1 Wizard: 9 hit points.


Coming from 4e, with Constitution Score + Class at level 1, I dont bat an eye at these hit points.

 

[Maxperson]

Current rules, Level 1 Wizard hit points: 6 hit points.

Level Zero rules, Level 0 Medium Size + Level 1 Wizard: 9 hit points.


Coming from 4e, with Constitution Score + Class at level 1, I dont bat an eye at these hit points.

It's going to move the balance line in favor the PCs by bumping up the hit points, but it won't be that bad.

 

[Maxperson]

I’d be fine with shifting the labels so that what is currently called “3rd level” becomes 1st level, and the current levels 1 and 2 become -1 and 0 respectively. In that case I’d still want a -2 with only race and background features and no class features. What number the levels have doesn’t really matter to me, though 5e does seem to prefer avoiding negative numbers.

Tell that to my hit points in combat! Maybe I'll try that next time I play 5e.

DM: "You fall 20 feet into the pit. Take 8 hit points of damage."
Me: "I'd really love to, but 5e frowns on negative numbers so I can't subtract from my hit points. So sorry."

 

[Yaarel]

It's going to move the balance line in favor the PCs by bumping up the hit points, but it won't be that bad.

Yeah. I think the hit point boost at level 1 is fine.


If someone feels the boost is a problem. Then I would start level 0 at a flat 6 hit points + Constitution. Gaining level 1 in a class then replaces the level 0 hit points.

But I kinda like the level 0 Size + level 1 Class hit points better.

Either way, the difference seems tolerable to me.


Judging by the recent recalibration to significantly boost healing spells, the slight boost to hit points at level 1 might be timely.

This way, players who want to start with "fragile" characters have level 0.

Players who want level 1 to be more substantial and survivable have the Size+Class hit points at level 1 along with the rest of the playtest including the level 0 feat.

It seems like win-win to me.

 

[Neonchameleon]

I routinely start campaigns with a level zero single session adventure that doubles as character creation. (For absolute beginners it's a five scene adventure with the demon offering them power at the climax - and people that refuse get different power; Wild Beyond the Witchlight ran a backstory scene with the PCs as their child-selves the last time the Carnival visited). The only thing players pick before that is races - and even then probably nerfed versions.