D&D 5E [+] Rangers should have monster fighting spells equivalent to Paladin's Smite spells. Discuss!

[Stormonu]

I think the Ranger has been suffering ever since D&D adopted a skill system. "Master of the Wilderness" has just become a less and less niche thing anyone has been able to do since 2E NWP's and being the Two Weapon Fighter/Archer isn't enough of a niche in this edition.

(And I gave Barbarians the option to replace Reckless Attack with a fighting style, as Reckless Attack is a sort of fighting style by itself)

 

[CreamCloud0]

You can make a stealth based character without the Sneak Attack feature. But if you want the Sneak Attack feature specifically, you should consider multiclassing into Rogue. I don't think that's an unreasonable proposition. It's good that classes, particularly the martial classes, have signature abilities that the other classes have no claim to. I don't love that you can get Metamagic and Eldritch Invocations from outside their source class on that basis, but I'm willing to let that go because the spellcasters are kinda different beasts.

it's not just about sneak attack though, i don't consider sneak attack, or maneuvres, or rage, or scalling unarmed attacks and enhanced mobility comparable to features on the level of metamagic or invocations, i consider them on the level of spell lists, if caster ability distribution was the same way martial ones were no two spellcasters would be able to share any spell on their spell list because they'd be 'infringing on each other's thematic identity', oh no you can't give sorcerer fireball, fireball is a keystone of defining the wizard's thematic identity! and cleric is the healer class, that means no-one else can have cure wounds, that's the way i feel martial abilities are treated.

just because if you shared class abilities throughout the martial group that doesn't mean they'd loose their specialisations or identity, they still have a ton of other class features to shape their identity, and the amount and kinds of access they'd get to each of the traits would also inform their identities, if you give rogue and barbarian fighter maneuvres rogue is going to get ones like precision attack or riposte and barbarian goading attack and menacing attack, but that doesn't weaken the fighter's identity.

 

[Rocker26a]

being the Two Weapon Fighter/Archer isn't enough of a niche in this edition.

I never embraced these as "Ranger things" to begin with. I don't care about Drizzle the Urban or whatever his name is, and the latter is just real basic. Thinking every Ranger is Robin Hood because they all wear Green and live in the Forest.

 

[mellored]

Only works if Rangers have spellbooks.

Then you can know Charm Undead, Bind Monstrosity, Banish Demon, Hold Aberration. and Dragonbane.


You'd have to create a

Banish X
Blind X
Charm X
Hold X
Locate X
Speak with X
X-Bane
X-Friendship
X Ward

for every applicable monster type

Hmm...
Make it a feature. Changeable on a short rest.

It will encourage playing a scout, looking at tracks and trying to determine what you are hunting. Actually use their Survival skill.

Favorite Enemy
Select a creature type. You deal 1d4 extra damage with weapon attacks against those creatures. When you take a short rest, you can change your Favorite Enemy type.
Level 11: You can spend 1 minute to change your favorite enemy feature.

 

[Rocker26a]

it's not just about sneak attack though, i don't consider sneak attack, or maneuvres, or rage, or scalling unarmed attacks and enhanced mobility comparable to features on the level of metamagic or invocations, i consider them on the level of spell lists, if caster ability distribution was the same way martial ones were no two spellcasters would be able to share any spell on their spell list because they'd be 'infringing on each other's thematic identity', oh no you can't give sorcerer fireball, fireball is a keystone of defining the wizard's thematic identity! and cleric is the healer class, that means no-one else can have cure wounds, that's the way i feel martial abilities are treated.

But there are spellcasters that cannot cast Fireball or Cure Wounds. Because those spells do not fit them, outside of subclasses.
But no, the class features are a better parallel to the, uh. Class features. Just like a Sorcerer cannot (and should not be able to) utilize a Spellbook, and a Druid cannot (and should not be able to) give Bardic Inspiration, a Barbarian cannot (and should not be able to) channel Ki.
My argument isn't that these signature martial abilities are in their perfect incarnation, it's a common talking point that the martial classes lose out compared to spellcasters. But the answer isn't a free-for-all, where they can all step on eachother's toes.

just because if you shared class abilities throughout the martial group that doesn't mean they'd loose their specialisations or identity, they still have a ton of other class features to shape their identity

They already have features that shape their identities. They're their features. On their levelling tables.

if you give rogue and barbarian fighter maneuvres rogue is going to get ones like precision attack or riposte and barbarian goading attack and menacing attack, but that doesn't weaken the fighter's identity.

That isn't what I'm suggesting, because it's already possible and non-harmful to Battlemaster's identity, as I said in that first post on the subject. Rogue and Barbarian can take a Feat or multiclass to get maneuvers. They don't even have to multiclass into Fighter, just anything that gets a Fighting Style works. What I was arguing against is, Ranger getting specifically Maneuvers from their base class. That would weaken the Battlemaster's identity.

With all that said, this is a + thread, so if we could get back on topic, that'd be swell!

 

[Rocker26a]

Hmm...
Make it a feature. Changeable on a short rest.

It will encourage playing a scout, looking at tracks and trying to determine what you are hunting. Actually use their Survival skill.

Favorite Enemy
Select a creature type. You deal 1d4 extra damage with weapon attacks against those creatures. When you take a short rest, you can change your Favorite Enemy type.
Level 11: You can spend 1 minute to change your favorite enemy feature.

That's just Favoured Enemy again! We've walked around in a circle!

 

[Horwath]

Hmm...
Make it a feature. Changeable on a short rest.

It will encourage playing a scout, looking at tracks and trying to determine what you are hunting. Actually use their Survival skill.

Favorite Enemy
Select a creature type. You deal 1d4 extra damage with weapon attacks against those creatures. When you take a short rest, you can change your Favorite Enemy type.
Level 11: You can spend 1 minute to change your favorite enemy feature.

change it as a Bonus action and we might have something here.

 

[mellored]

change it as a Bonus action and we might have something here.

Maybe at higher levels.

Level 1: change favorite enemy on a short rest
Level 5: change favorite enemy in 1 minute
Level 11: change favorite enemy as an action
Level 17: change favorite enemy as a bonus action

But the main issue with 3e style favorite X is how inflexible it is. Allow it to change, and it's useful.

 

[Rocker26a]

Maybe at higher levels.

Level 1: change favorite enemy on a short rest
Level 5: change favorite enemy in 1 minute
Level 11: change favorite enemy as an action
Level 17: change favorite enemy as a bonus action

But the main issue with 3e style favorite X is how inflexible it is. Allow it to change, and it's useful.

This is all waaay too slight to me. Nobody cares about +1D4 damage past like, level 6! I know the Ranger UAs are very "once bitten, twice shy", but you can ask for more!
(And also I don't think this should be made Ranger's signature feature, we've been down that road already and it hasn't worked)

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Yeah you don't need to be ranged focused but I assumed having good ranged attack options is one of the appeal of going DEX for a Paladin. It's also how you get the most damage as a DEX build. A studded leather Ancient Paladin sounds really cool.X

Nah the appeal IME is being a heroic musketeer style holy knight. Being able to shoot things is a bonus, with better range and less cost than picking up spell attacks. But the draw is swishy pokey stabby guy lI get you, I get you. I was just saying I understand why people feel that way.

That said, I'd let them trade the chain mail in the Paladin's starting equipment for mundane equipment of equal value without too much hassle.

We should still have a 5e Avenger.

I’d just let a player play a homebrew Paladin variant that is wisdom based and gets unarmored defense (wisdom), but is otherwise the same, tbh.

Maybe reduce Lay on Hands and instead give them increased movement and make Oath of Emnity a base class use of Channel Divinity, and the oath of vengeance gets temporary expanded crit range or something instead.

The Paladin is frustratingly close lol

Thread: hey I got this idea for a different use for ranger spellcasting! It's a + thread!

Thread devolves into a martials vs casters debate with a side order of spell less ranger.

Every time.