D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Epic Meepo]

I think that was always the point. Not to say Dragonborn are biologically the same thing as Draconians, but to say “if a player wants to play a draconian in the Dragonlance setting, rather than just saying no, they can use Dragonborn stats”. But that would be entirely at the DM’s discretion, which is an idea some players have trouble getting their heads round. The difference between “fudge it” and canon.

Well, DMs can always "fudge it" to say draconians use the Dragonborn Traits in the 2014 PHB, but that would technically be a house rule. The Draconians sidebar explicitly states draconians have different traits than the Dragonborn Traits in the 2014 PHB.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Then where's the value of calling them dragonborn?

Future proofing them so they can use dragonborn-specific feats, magic items, subclasses, or whatever else gets printed in future supplements without needing to print draconian-specific versions of those options.

Providing new DMs with an example of a D&D setting which incorporates a type of dragonborn from the ground up, so those DMs get a feel for how to incorporate dragonborn into their own campaign.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Future proofing them so they can use dragonborn-specific feats, magic items, subclasses, or whatever else gets printed in future supplements without needing to print draconian-specific versions of those options.

Providing new DMs with an example of a D&D setting which incorporates a type of dragonborn from the ground up, so those DMs get a feel for how to incorporate dragonborn into their own campaign.

Except as I've said, dragonborn did not exist in D&D until many years after draconians were invented with Dragonlance, so calling Krynn a world where dragonborn are incorporated from the ground up is a purely semantic argument.

 

[Yaarel]

Well, DMs can always "fudge it" to say draconians use the Dragonborn Traits in the 2014 PHB, but that would technically be a house rule. The Draconians sidebar explicitly states draconians have different traits than the Dragonborn Traits in the 2014 PHB.

I appreciate the references.

Here is what the 2014 Players Handbook (34) says.

"
DRACONIANS
In the Dragonlance selling, the followers of the evil goddess Takhisis learned a dark ritual that let them corrupt the eggs of metallic dragons. producing evil dragonborn called draconians. Five types of draconians, corresponding to the five types of metallic dragons, fought for Takhisis in the War of the Lance: auraks (gold). baaz (brass), bozak (bronze), kapak (copper), and sivak (silver). In place of their draconic breath weapons, they have unique magical abilities.

"

The Players Handbook text can read to mean: "Draconian" is a term for a kind of Dragonborn that lacks the Breathweapon feature. Instead, "they have unique magical abilities".

Swap the dragonbreath for some appropriate Draconian trait. Everything else is Dragonborn.

Looking at the UA3 Dragonborn, it actually gains Draconic Flight at level 5. Where the Dragonborn gains spectral wings of dragonbreath energy, the Draconian has actual wings albeit somewhat vestigial.

 

[Yaarel]

Except as I've said, dragonborn did not exist in D&D until many years after draconians were invented with Dragonlance, so calling Krynn a world where dragonborn are incorporated from the ground up is a purely semantic argument.

Any dragonbreath Dragonborn in Krynn are setting hoppers.

 

[jmartkdr2]

Totally agree with the NPC spell area, and I don't think anyone is saying that all species features should be spells, merely that it is probably easier and more coherent to represent innate magic of the elves with such. But I think we need to talk about what elves should have besides of that. If all they have is darkvision, trance and spells, that is kinda boring. Like if they no longer have dex bonus, should their superior agility and coordination still be represented somehow?

Best idea I’ve had for a feature called Elven Grace is unarmored defense, which I admit isn’t a very good idea.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Except as I've said, dragonborn did not exist in D&D until many years after draconians were invented with Dragonlance, so calling Krynn a world where dragonborn are incorporated from the ground up is a purely semantic argument.

The Humanoid creature type didn't exist in D&D until many years after Dragonlance was created, so by your logic, calling Krynn a world where Humanoids are incorporated from the ground up is a purely semantic argument.

 

[Yaarel]

So do you consider the water breathing of tritons to be a spell? Mermaids? Sahuagin? Fish?

Fish breathe water biologically. Similarly, the D&D Merfolk are nonmagical and part fish.

However, the Triton casts innate spells: Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, and Water Walk. But I consider the Triton to be a Greek nature being, originating from the water, thus inherently a waterbreather. Properly, the Triton should be Fey for the same reason the Dryad is.

By contrast, Elves normally dont breathe water. The ones who do clearly attain it by means of magic.

 

[Levistus's_Leviathan]

Not very interesting though.

Sea Elves aren’t interesting (except in Eberron).

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Sea Elves aren’t interesting (except in Eberron).

They're not terrible in ElfQuest. They could make them more interesting in D&D if they wanted to.