D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Micah Sweet]

The Humanoid creature type didn't exist in D&D until many years after Dragonlance was created, so by your logic, calling Krynn a world where Humanoids are incorporated from the ground up is a purely semantic argument.

Are humanoid and dragonborn the same kind of thing?

Also, humanoid has a general meaning, used in D&D in many places long before it was a creature type. Dragonborn as a term is practically WotC IP.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Sea Elves aren’t interesting (except in Eberron).

I like them in Dragonlance.

 

[CreamCloud0]

By contrast, Elves normally dont breathe water. The ones who do clearly attain it by means of magic.

The point of sea elves subspecies is that they have adapted to organically do what other elves can’t do ie: naturally breathe water

 

[Yaarel]

The point of sea elves subspecies is that they have adapted to organically do what other elves can’t do ie: naturally breathe water

Every Elf that casts spells can waterbreathe.

When Elves entered the underwater, they cast spells to breathe water immediately. Otherwise they would drown.

LOL! They didnt hold their breath for millions of years while slowly evolving the biology to breathe water.

It is a spell.

Water Breathing is a subpar spell for slot 3. Ideally, it should be a lower slot. It grants 10 creatures waterbreathing for 24 hours. Possibly buff the slot 3 spell by granting Swim Speed 60 like Dolphin, and other perk. Then the Gills cantrip grants self waterbreathing.

 

[Remathilis]

Kinda. They have a completely different origin. The 2014 PH was just trying to be all-encompassing (with both statements) at the time, and painted with too broad a brush IMO.

I increasingly believe that D&D should not have anything resembling a core rules. Instead, every setting should have its own rulebooks that are compatible, like World of Darkness or Edge of the Empire Star Wars.

There is a Dragonlance book that has Dragonlance appropriate classes and races. The same for Eberron, Ravenloft, etc. "Default" D&D could be the Greyhawk book. The lore is appropriate to the setting rather than be generic filler. You could also include different subclasses in each.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I increasingly believe that D&D should not have anything resembling a core rules. Instead, every setting should have its own rulebooks that are compatible, like World of Darkness or Edge of the Empire Star Wars.

There is a Dragonlance book that has Dragonlance appropriate classes and races. The same for Eberron, Ravenloft, etc. "Default" D&D could be the Greyhawk book. The lore is appropriate to the setting rather than be generic filler. You could also include different subclasses in each.

I'm all for that.

 

[Minigiant]

I increasingly believe that D&D should not have anything resembling a core rules. Instead, every setting should have its own rulebooks that are compatible, like World of Darkness or Edge of the Empire Star Wars.

There is a Dragonlance book that has Dragonlance appropriate classes and races. The same for Eberron, Ravenloft, etc. "Default" D&D could be the Greyhawk book. The lore is appropriate to the setting rather than be generic filler. You could also include different subclasses in each.

Cool idea.
Terrible for business.

 

[Hussar]

So do you consider the water breathing of tritons to be a spell? Mermaids? Sahuagin? Fish?

Do you consider being able to breath water a magical effect? No? Then why are you continuously banging this drum? The issue isn't that all effects need to be spells. The issue is when very obvious spell effects are being turned into non-spells so they can bypass the magic system.

Should my Fire Genasi be able to drop burning hands at will without using the spell system? Produce flame? After all, you seem to feel that any racial abilities should never use the spell system. I'd love for my Fire Genasi to be dropping burning hands and Healing Word in the same round. Makes my Circle of Fire Druid a lot more powerful. Thanks.

 

[Remathilis]

Do you consider being able to breath water a magical effect? No? Then why are you continuously banging this drum? The issue isn't that all effects need to be spells. The issue is when very obvious spell effects are being turned into non-spells so they can bypass the magic system.

Should my Fire Genasi be able to drop burning hands at will without using the spell system? Produce flame? After all, you seem to feel that any racial abilities should never use the spell system. I'd love for my Fire Genasi to be dropping burning hands and Healing Word in the same round. Makes my Circle of Fire Druid a lot more powerful. Thanks.

Oh, I don't think they never should be, but I' don't feel making every remotely supernatural ability a spell is good either. I would hate, for example, to replace a changeling's ability to morph into other species just become "cast disguise self x/per day" even if the two have roughly the same parameters.

But I get you don't like the idea that characters have abilities you can't hard block.

 

[Epic Meepo]

Are humanoid and dragonborn the same kind of thing?

Yes, they are both rules terms used to categorize creatures. "Humanoid" is a creature type and "dragonborn" is a tag which can be added to a creature type to provide additional categorization. (Types and tags are both discussed in the "Type" section of the Monster Manual.) To see a rule where both creature types and tags which correspond to race names play an identical function, see the ranger's favored enemy feature.

Also, humanoid has a general meaning, used in D&D in many places long before it was a creature type.

So, by your logic, inventing a new, larger category (dragonborn) which includes a smaller, pre-existing category (draconian) is a retcon; but taking an existing word with an established general meaning (humanoid) and redefining it to mean something more specific somehow isn't a retcon? I don't think there's any point in continuing this discussion we're having, because your definition of the word "retcon" differs so fundamentally from my own. I'll bow out and give you the last word.