D&D 5E I’d be glad for MAD

[Distracted DM]

Folk saying that this or that class isn't SAD because they need Con+Dex are just disagreeing on the definitions of SAD/MAD. Going back to 3e where the discussions really started (I can't recall ever discussing them in 2e), everyone still needed Con+Dex in that edition.

No one's going to be SAD by that definition, so I can't say that's very helpful for those with MAD/SAD concerns.

 

[ezo]

Folk saying that this or that class isn't SAD because they need Con+Dex are just disagreeing on the definitions of SAD/MAD. Going back to 3e where the discussions really started (I can't recall ever discussing them in 2e), everyone still needed Con+Dex in that edition.

No one's going to be SAD by that definition, so I can't say that's very helpful for those with MAD/SAD concerns.

If you take out DEX and CON:

Barbarian: Str
Bard: Cha
Cleric: Str, Wis
Druid: Wis
Fighter: Str
Monk: Wis
Paladin: Str, Cha
Ranger: Str (if you dont' go DEX), Wis
Rogue: without DEX... nada.
Sorcerer: Cha
Warlock: Cha
Wizard: Int

So, Paladins and maybe Rangers (if you aren't DEX-based) are then the only "MAD" classes?

If you remove the DEX/CON addition, pretty much every class is already SAD -- and none are MAD -- in which case there is no really issue, is there???

Since you can technically do a DEX-based Paladin, also...

 

[aco175]

Barbarian: Str, Dex, Con
Bard: Dex, Con, Cha
Cleric: Str, Con, Wis
Druid: Dex, Con, Wis
Fighter: Str, Dex, Con
Monk: Dex, Con, Wis
Paladin: Str, Con, Cha
Ranger: Str/Dex, Con, Wis
Sorcerer: Dex, Con, Cha
Warlock: Dex, Con, Cha
Wizard: Dex, Con, Int

See the trend?

Rogue is hiding using his SAD dex build.

 

[Distracted DM]

If you take out DEX and CON:

Barbarian: Str
Bard: Cha
Cleric: Str, Wis
Druid: Wis
Fighter: Str
Monk: Wis
Paladin: Str, Cha
Ranger: Str (if you dont' go DEX), Wis
Sorcerer: Cha
Warlock: Cha
Wizard: Int

So, Paladins and maybe Rangers (if you aren't DEX-based) are then the only "MAD" classes?

If you remove the DEX/CON addition, pretty much every class is already SAD -- and none are MAD -- in which case there is no really issue, is there???

Since you can technically do a DEX-based Paladin, also...

Ahhh I see the disconnect. Earlier I said that I dislike that all the classes are so SAD. That's my issue

Paladins need Strength and Charisma. Don't monks need Wis and either Str or Dex?

Clerics really don't need Strength.
Rangers... I guess they sort of need Wis for their spell DCs.

 

[ezo]

Rogue is hiding using his SAD dex build.

You got it! (I've added it in...)

Ahhh I see the disconnect. Earlier I said that I dislike that all the classes are so SAD. That's my issue

Oh, gotcha! Yeah, NP.

Paladins don't need Strength. Dex-based works for them as well. Same thing with Clerics.

But yes, sans Dex and/or Con, every class is really SAD -- there aren't any MAD classes in 5E.

 

[payn]

Im on the MAD train. I think base accuracy and damage should be divorced from stats. Open it back up like 3E/PF1 but use more modern caps and stats along with BA.

 

[Warpiglet-7]

SAD is single attribute (score) dependent characters such as fighters (strength) and rogues (dexterity), and MAD is multiple attribute (score) dependent such as paladins (charisma and strength).

I think part of the answer is what one considers a good score to have. It it is a 20 in your stat at 4th level, or sooner if you roll for stats, then that means one thing. If 14 is a good stat to you, then you can have like 3 of them at 1st level and that means another thing.

To answer the opening post (OP), I think that limiting the max score to 16 instead of 20 would do the same thing and not need to make averages and math. This would free up more stat points to make other scores better since you would not need to get to the 20.

More than one way to skin a cat.

You know people complain 5e is too easy…

I have played with only +3 to main stat to level 10…

But some folks would probably change their stat allocation or like me, take more feats!

 

[Horwath]

1. remove CON, like 90% of characters have 14 con, it's now more or less a point buy tax.
just give everyone +2 HP per level

2. Remove ability modifiers from attacks, saves, damage AC and DC. Replace them with proficiency bonus.

3. Use ability modifiers only for ability checks(skills)

then:
non proficient attack; proficiency bonus
proficient attack: 2×proficiency bonus
damage; proficiency bonus, 2×proficiency for Heavy, 2-Handed melee weapons
ALL DCs: 8+2×proficiency bonus
AC: 8+armor bonus+proficiency bonus(if proficient with armor worn)
Non proficient save: proficiency bonus
proficient save: 2×proficiency bonus

4. Return to 3 saves category: Fortitude, Reflex, Will
Fort: all current STR and CON saves
Ref: all current DEX saves
Will: all current INT, WIS and CHA saves.

every class starts with one category proficient, resilient Feat gives you another.

 

[Distracted DM]

Or keep Con, and remove its influence on HP.
Require melee attacks to be made with str or dex (for applicable weapons), ranged attacks to use dex.

I woulde agreed with the Fort/Ref/Will, but a5e did a good job of spreading out saves between stats.

 

[DrJawaPhD]

Folk saying that this or that class isn't SAD because they need Con+Dex are just disagreeing on the definitions of SAD/MAD.

100% agreed. SAD means you only care about 3 stats, MAD means you absolutely require at least 4 stats to be at 14+.