One Rouse-attributed quote that should die now

Fifth Element said:

A date wasn't specified. If they had a new product on January 1, 2008, that would make it "through 2008". As long as it touches 2008, 2008 in included. "Through the end of 2008" would have the meaning you're looking for.

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Scott Rouse obviously doesn't agree with you. Otherwise he wouldn't feel the need for the clarification.

Korgoth said:

Could you explain what specifically you allege Scott to have been lying about and provide evidence?

I think there's nothing wrong with questioning or criticising WOTC but Scott is a member of EN World and has to be extended the same courtesy as any other poster. Unless you can establish demonstrably that he lied, your post is an inappropriate accusation.

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A quote from D&D Experience in February was posted in which a WotC rep state that:

(1) They were not working on 4th Edition.
(2) They had 3.5 products scheduled through 2008.

Scott Rouse accepts responsibility for that quote, but clarifies it thus:

"BTW that quote attributed to me at D&D Experience that you reference here was wrong. Most was right except I said we have a lot of great products through the end of the year (2007) not through 2008 as it was attributed." (this is from the link provided in the first message of this thread)

Now if he was quoted correctly except for the second part of the statement (which should have read 2007 instead of 2008), then he was quoted correctly when he said that they were not working on 4th Edition.

But Bill Slavicsek has said that they've been working on 4th Edition for "more than two years now". (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uj-9vMYGu0Q)

Now, unless Scott Rouse (D&D Brand Manager) was unaware in February that 4th Edition was being developed and had been under development for at least a year (probably two years), he lied.

Now, let me be clear: This is not a personal slight on Scott Rouse. He undoubtedly had his marching orders. And I can fully understand a company policy of "we're not going to confirm or even say anything that might suggest that we're developing a new edition of the game until we're ready to announce it". For WotC it makes sense.

But it doesn't change the fact that they lied.

So, I don't feel the lie makes them a bad person. It was a business decision and I can understand the rationale behind that business decision.

But, realistically, I'm not going to believe anything about 4th Edition until I have the books in my hands. WotC misled people about the backwards compatibility of the 3.5 revision when it was released and they lied about not having 4th Edition in development. As a fan, I'll judge 4th Edition on what actually appears in the books and nothing else. I think that's fair enough.

And as a producer of third-party D20 products, I'm going to be very cautious in how I approach WotC in the future. I got burned as a freelancer with the 3.5 revision (to the point where I literally had to leave the industry for several years) and I'm getting burned by their mendacity on the plans for 4th Edition. (I took them at their word that a new edition wouldn't arrive until 2009 at the earliest and that I would, therefore, have the remainder of this year and at least the first quarter of next year to release 3.5 material without the specter of a new edition hanging over the marketplace. Obviously that isn't happening now and I'm forced to radically alter my business plan as a result.)

In other words, I don't trust WotC as a fan and, as a business man, I not only don't expect WotC to do anything except in their own self-interest (which I never did anyway), but I will also make my plans under the assumption that I'm being blatantly lied to about their intentions at any given time (since they now have an established track record of doing so).

I think that's fair, too.

Justin Alexander
http://www.thealexandrian.net

JustinA said:

A quote from D&D Experience in February was posted in which a WotC rep state that:

(1) They were not working on 4th Edition.
(2) They had 3.5 products scheduled through 2008.


Now if he was quoted correctly except for the second part of the statement (which should have read 2007 instead of 2008), then he was quoted correctly when he said that they were not working on 4th Edition.

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Can you provide a direct quote for the first point? One poster tried to find, but could only come up with: "They were not working on 4th Edition .. that would force players to use miniatures."

SR posted on an ENW thread about this very subject:

Scott_Rouse said:

So to set the record straight I was misquoted.

If anyone has videotape or a podcast of the seminar go back and listen to what I said, you'll hear it went something like this:

"(Chuckle) I can't believe it took you guys so long to ask this one (about 4e). Look 4e is a long ways away (at that time 15months) when it comes out we'll give you plenty of advance notice (it turns out 9 months) until that time we have plenty of great products coming out through the end of the year".

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Numion said:

Can you provide a direct quote for the first point? One poster tried to find, but could only come up with: "They were not working on 4th Edition .. that would force players to use miniatures."

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That would be me. I checked every thread that the Search feature turned up for the keyword "Experience", every thread that turned up for "Winter Fantasy", the D&D 4th Edition news page, and the news archive. I came up with nothing. There is discussion of the alleged quote, but I couldn't find the quote itself, or the name of the person who is alleged to have said it. It was always "a WotC rep" or similar.

The only things I could find are repeated on the 4th Edition news page. There, Kevin Wilson is noted as saying that they are not working on a 4th edition that will require miniatures, at GenCon 2006. The Scott Rouse quote that is being discussed above is also given there.

On the "announcements will be at D&D Experience" thing, I think that comes from another Kevin Wilson quote from GenCon 2006:

4th_Edition_News_Page said:

Kevin's exact quote was, according to GR, "...the show currently known as Winter Fantasy will be the primary place to push D&D, and 2007 will reveal a lot"

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That stops rather short of "all major D&D announcements will be at D&D Experience".

Unless someone can provide exact quotes and not just remembrances of what might have been said, Scott and WotC in general get the benefit of doubt from me. Memory is a funny thing that sometimes tells you what you want to hear, not what you heard.

JRRNeiklot said:

You know, he may have been misquoted, but it'd darn easy to say "I was misquoted" after the hits the fan. What's next? I didn't say 2008 as I understood the term? Define is?

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I've been quoted in the media a dozen times. Once, I think they even got it right. And these were professional reporters who had a notepad ready while we spoke!

Misquoting happens.

Edit: Deleted.

I'm done quibbling over semantics. It only detracts from the point of the thread.

delericho said:

That would be me. I checked every thread that the Search feature turned up for the keyword "Experience", every thread that turned up for "Winter Fantasy", the D&D 4th Edition news page, and the news archive. I came up with nothing. There is discussion of the alleged quote, but I couldn't find the quote itself, or the name of the person who is alleged to have said it. It was always "a WotC rep" or similar.

The only things I could find are repeated on the 4th Edition news page. There, Kevin Wilson is noted as saying that they are not working on a 4th edition that will require miniatures, at GenCon 2006. The Scott Rouse quote that is being discussed above is also given there.

On the "announcements will be at D&D Experience" thing, I think that comes from another Kevin Wilson quote from GenCon 2006:


That stops rather short of "all major D&D announcements will be at D&D Experience".

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Thanks for this, delericho. There have been a lot of claims thrown about regarding what Wizards reps have said, and we seem to be clearing them up in this thread. I was even fooled into believing the "all D&D announcements at D&D Experience" one.

Any other Wizards-attributed quotes that need to be debunked?

an_idol_mind said:

Unless someone can provide exact quotes and not just remembrances of what might have been said, Scott and WotC in general get the benefit of doubt from me. Memory is a funny thing that sometimes tells you what you want to hear, not what you heard.

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Yeah, I think that's the best policy with hearsay.

Now, if an actual text was turned up, that's another matter. But in absence of that, things like "I heard..." or "Someone said..." or whatever just aren't probative.