Redclaws Protectors OOC

I think the Cleric point is the most telling. It uses the same language - "You possess a ritual book" - and it is impossible to buy a ritual book, any kind of armor, a weapon, a holy symbol, and an adventuring kit with 100g. They cost 50 + 25 minimum + 1 minimum + 10 + 15 = 101 minimum (and that's for leather armor and a club, whereas they're proficient with chainmail and a morningstar which cost 25g more).

Furthermore, it's in a class feature. When a class feature tells you that you have something or can do something, that's (to me) telling you that it's an assumed part of the class. Fighter class features don't mention anything about owning a weapon. You get bonuses if you do, but they don't say "you possess a longsword" or even "you possess a weapon". You can make a brawler fighter if you want and just use improvised weapons.

You really can't make a wizard without a spellbook, though. They're part and parcel of the class. That's why I believe it's intended for them to get their spellbook for free.

EDIT:

Redclaw said:

But can you explain to me why a wizard and a cleric would automatically be worth be worth an extra 50% more than members of any other class? You're basically saying that you get 150% of the starting wealth that everyone else does. That seems a bit off to me.

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Why should the wizard and the cleric be forced to spend half of their starting gold to gain any benefit at all from a class feature that is universal to all paths of the class, and in the wizard's case, to even use daily powers? That's saying they're worth 50% less than any other character, because they HAVE to have that piece of equipment to even function. It'd be like telling a Ranger, "Yeah, you get +1d6 damage once a round, but only if you take half of your starting cash and burn it as an offering to the Gods!" - and note that spellbooks are a much bigger deal to Wizards than Hunter's Quarry is to Rangers.

For the record, I started a thread in the 4E rules forum about this, both to get insight from other people and to clear this thread of it. The spellbook discussion thread is here.

Question answered thanks to Zurai's discussion thread. The spellbook and ritual book are free as class features.

Zurai said:

For the record, I started a thread in the 4E rules forum about this, both to get insight from other people and to clear this thread of it. The spellbook discussion thread is here.

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Thanks for clearing this up.

With all the playtesting you'd think they'd find things like this.

I think the point of the "extra money" for wizards is -probably- that to use rituals you need to have ritual materials. So, technically, a wizard is "richer" but if you spend it on material components all you get is x number of uses of your class power.
Mirna of course is spending it on boys and beer. (j/k)

Is it still ok for me to take residuum or should I just do that 50gp arcana/30gp nature thing?

Walking Dad said:

Same for clerics.

I will add numbers to my skills. No comment regarding the picture?

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You invariably have cool pictures. The rest of us are just jealous.

Not sure where I'm going to find a picture of a short haired blond wizardess with "over sized hands and feet".

EvolutionKB said:

If we make it to level 4(doubtful, never seen a PbP game have that much advancement), I will have a paladin melee power(based of Chr of course, so I have a chance to hit).

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Depressing thought...
I was expecting more and more varied 4e games to show up. There's this one (&KotS). And the one that opened and closed immediately and the eternally on life-support ePoL.

All first level too.
Maybe people are still absorbing?

EvolutionKB said:

An ambush, like what happened in KotS would not make good for anybody, especially strikers/controllers.

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HA!
My thunderwave will protect me.
I laugh in the face of ambush!
HAHAHA!
(what? thunderwave doesn't knock people prone after all... Oh. Uh... in that case.... OOOSSSRRRIIIIIICCC!)

Seriously, I think that if we're ambushed it's daily & AP time.
KotS (about which I need to stop talking and start posting) is kinda written to challenge, the ambush isn't supposed to be a big encounter, but it's written that way.

A group I know offline has abandoned the "role" system. Two out of three people are playing defenders. They have the best defense, good damage and (if you're a paladin, which they both are) good saves and healing.
We'll see how far they make it.

EvolutionKB said:

Sigh...I just finished reading all the classes/powers, now it is time to find my favorite to play. Hopefully I don't die in these 4E games quickly enough where I have a chance to play them all. I've always leaned towards melee characters before, though some of my highest level and most fun 3E characters were a wizard, cleric, and druid. On that note it feels a little weird not playing a cleric in 4E. In all my previous edition experience, my first character was always a cleric.

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The cleric looks... tricky to me. "You hit one guy for small damage and give someone a small bonus"?
Maybe it'd be a more attractive class if you could really pump your strength. But I was looking forward to "finally" having a good "casting cleric" possibility. So that's not really appealing to me.

I like sacred flame the best, if you get a few good rounds of roles you can make a big different in terms of "retarding hit loss" for the tank. But it's a bit "small ball" compared to wizards or even strikers.

I skimmed down and it seems like you're stuck with the same at-wills for "forever", no?. And the most attractive powers (utilities, etc) are ones are healing abilities. I confess to having hope for something like semi-regular "flamestrike that buffs".
Flamestrike and Purifying Flame are both powerful, but they're dailies... (and they don't buff of course)

Which makes sense in the cleric=WoW priest sense, but not in the "you do cool stuff AND that causes buffing!" sense.

EvolutionKB said:

Edit: I've got the star pact, so no teleporting. It gives me a +1 per cursed opponent dropped on a d20 roll by the end of my next turn.

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I wasn't so impressed by teleporting when I first saw it... but it's got a certain sort of appeal compared to +1 on x roll once.
Still I suppose you could apply it toward a saving throw, which isn't shabby.

Graf said:

You invariably have cool pictures. The rest of us are just jealous.

Not sure where I'm going to find a picture of a short haired blond wizardess with "over sized hands and feet".

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I made this one myself, using Hero Machine , but I doubt there is a 'big hands' option.

Graf said:

Is it still ok for me to take residuum or should I just do that 50gp arcana/30gp nature thing?

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I think it still makes sense with Mirna's backstory. Phillian might get suspicious if 80 gp worth of residuum disappears, however, so why don't we say you can get 40 gp worth.

By the way, I'm getting really excited for this game. Can't wait for it to start! You slackers need to write up your characters and put em in the Rogue's Gallery!

I'm still awaiting comments about the two different builds. What would be better for the group:

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4284061&postcount=52

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4289730&postcount=75

before I post in the RG
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=230605