Help with a feline player race

Hi everyone,
Im trying to include a cstom race into my campaign but im woried about balancing it on my own.

The race i want to use is basically a wookie sized feline race called the togorians from star wars (altough im changing the name/history etc for my campaign). There is a build in the SWRPG alien anthology but im not sure if it will fit into 3.5e and also the attribute changes (+4str -2dex, +2con, -2wis, -2int) dont really emphasise the species in the way i want.

I was wondering if there are any published races which are strong, dexderitous and limber (hence the feline traits), perhaps with bonuses in listen/spot type skills and tracking etc. According to the SWRPG rules this is a large creature (although im not sure if i want a large or medium sized creature, depends on if there are balancing issues). Anyway if you guys know of anything which could possibly be used as this race id apprecitae it. im not confident enough to balance stuff like this myself nad would prefer to use published builds if possible.

Also i was wondering if having a large creature in a party can be an unbalancing factor?

sorry if this is posted in the wrong forum, feel free to move it if necessary

Big thanks for the help!!

Marc

Mythic Races by Fantasy Flight Games 3.0

pg 17 Animen +2 CON -2 WIS +2 Spot and Hide +2 NAC
Animal people

pg 23 Artathi +2 DEX -2 CON +2 Hide and M Sil +6 Balance+2 Dodge Bonus
Cat People

Arcana Unearthed by Mal Havoc Press 3.5
pg 18 Litorians +2 Dex -2 WIS +2 Intim, Search, Spot, List and Surv
Lion People

Oathbound: Plains of Penance by Bastion Press
pg 18 Aurads +2 CHA -2 WIS +2 Appraise and Perform
Colorful furred cat-people

The Catfolk race appears in Races of the Wild, as well as in the Miniatures Handbook (but, since neither of those are OGL sources, posting their stats is probably not wise.)

They're medium-sized, with bonuses in Dex and Cha. They're probably closer to the "feline prototype" than the goonish Togorians are. But, they're also an ECL+1 race (probably because they have two "plussed" ability scores, and no "minused").

Also, making a PC race large typically also calls for an ECL adjustment.

The ECL system is meant to help balance tougher races with the basic races. Large PCs will have distinct advantages with reach (and can get really broken when using spells that can make them Huge), but are easier to hit in combat, and may run into "soft" disadvantages (i.e., having a hard time finding equipment that fits, not fitting into rooms, standing out in public, etc.)

Catfolk, from Miniatures Handbook & Races of the Wild:

+4 Dex, +2 Cha, a few other abilities, +1 LA

Anthropomorphic animals, from Savage Species:

Lions are +3 NA, +2 Str, +6 Dex, and +4 Wis, with 2 levels of Monstrous Humanoid and +1 LA;
Tigers are +1 NA, +4 Str, +6 Dex, +2 Con, and +4 Wis, with same ECL;
Cheetahs are +1 NA, +10 land speed, +6 Str, +8 Dex, +4 Con, and +4 Wis, with 2 levels of MH and +2 LA;
Leopards are the same, base land speed.

All have darkvision, low light vision, bite and claw attacks, and nice skill bonuses and skills in their HD. The (rather silly) attempt at balance is to deny them a feat off of their racial HD. Realistically, you can probably add 1 to their LA and get a bit better balance.

I play an anthropomorphic tiger in our Planescape game, and he rocks on toast.

Large characters are okay, but expect lots of pains in the rear end as the DM makes your character squeeeeeze through small tunnels, not be able to sit on a stool, etc.

Brad

hmmm theres some interesting ones in there thanks guys!

I was thinking to focus on his increased str and dex but i guess going away from the "cat wookie" feel towards a "humanoid cat" feel would also work. Ill have to check out those races which i havnt got access to right now but definately sound interesting! Bit worried about the ECL changes (newish DM so i dont want to go to complex to quickly, the anomorphic creatures are increased ECL arnt they?)

Are there any specific rules on playing with attribute scores, adding and subtracting etc? Like do you need to balance positives with negatives to make it equal or is that problematic without more severe drops? The player who wants to play this race wants to play a monk. +str and dex and no loss to wis would probably make him pretty scary to face off against but i dont have enough experience to say.

also I was wondering though what LA is? is that the same sorta thing as ECL? with ECL adjustments im still abit confused, say a player takes an ECL+1 species, could that be balanced by losing a class level? So ECL+1 species + 19lvls of X class = human with 20 lvls of X class?

thanks a tonfor all the help guys

Marc

The Book of Erotic Fantasy has a template, called Felid, that can be applied to any humanoid or monstrous humanoid that grants it feline-anthropomorphic qualities.

It gives -2 to Str and Wis, and +2 to Dex (and to Appearance, the new ability score in the book). For skills, it adds a +2 racial modifier to Climb, Hide, Jump, and Move Silently (+4 on running Jump checks) and a +4 to Balance. It grants low-light vision. It grants Slow Fall (Ex) which is you have 5 hit dice and are within arm's reach of a wall, you fall as if the distance were 10 feet shorter. At 10 hit dice it grants you one of the following feats: Acrobatic, Agile, Alertness, Athletic, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Skill Focus, or Stealthy. It has no increase to CR or LA.

Jurble said:

also I was wondering though what LA is? is that the same sorta thing as ECL? with ECL adjustments im still abit confused, say a player takes an ECL+1 species, could that be balanced by losing a class level? So ECL+1 species + 19lvls of X class = human with 20 lvls of X class?

Click to expand...

LA means Level Adjustment. Level adjustments are one-third of ECL. The othesr are hit dice and class levels. A level adjustment is the increase in the characters (PC) level in terms of power, and is meant to compensate for powerful abilities.

For example, a creature that has a LA of +2, three natural hit dice, and fifteen class levels is ECL 20.

Jurble said:

also I was wondering though what LA is? is that the same sorta thing as ECL? with ECL adjustments im still abit confused, say a player takes an ECL+1 species, could that be balanced by losing a class level? So ECL+1 species + 19lvls of X class = human with 20 lvls of X class?

Click to expand...

LA = Level Adjustment.

ECL = Effective Character Level.

Basically, ECL is Racial Hit Dice (if any) + Level Adjustment (if any) + Class Levels (if any).

For a dwarven Ftr 17, his ECL is 17: 17 class levels, no level adjustment or racial HD. Normally, one doesn't think of regular races as having ECLs, but I think it helps for comparison.

For that same dwarf who's bitten by a were-riding dog, he's now ECL 21: 17 class levels, 2 level adjustment, and two racial HD (were-puppy).

So, for a regular Catfolk Rgr 2, he's ECL 3: Two levels of ranger, and one point of level adjustment.

For Iskander, my anthropomorphic tiger swordmaster, he'd be ECL 17: Two levels of tiger-man, plus 14 class levels, plus one level adjustment. That is, if I hadn't bought off the LA already. Theoretically, he'd be equal to a 17th level human/dwarven fighter.

Brad

The Dragonstar Galactic Races book has a cat-race called the Pershala (and, this one is OGC, so I can post it)

+2 Dex, -2 Wis, -4 Cha
Medium size
Speed 30'
Natural attack: 2 claws (1d4 + Str mod), 1 bite (1d4 + 1/2 Str, at -5 attack)
Low-light vision
Slow fall 20' (as a monk)
+4 racial bonus to Balance, Climb, and Freefall *
+2 racial bonus to Jump, Move Silently, and Pilot *
Favored class: Pilot *
Level Adjustment: +0

(* Dragonstar is fundamentally D&D in Space, so some of these aren't entirely applicable to a more traditional fantasy setting)

ahh so if you match ECL to other characters (say you want all lvl12 chars youd match with ECL 12 not LA12) have i got that right?

Also with hit die, you have a racial/class hit die right? (so the type of die you roll for HPs) and the amount of those you have increases with lvl (so a lvl 5 might get 5d8 or something?)

by upping hit die (amount OR type?) it increases your ECL?

Just when i thought id had most of the DM/DnD stuff down pat i read that stuff and thought "uh oh"

Can playing with ability modifiers effect ECL if you keep them balancing positives with negatives?

thanks a ton for this, major help!!

Marc