Hordes of the Abyss.

JoeGKushner

First Post

• May 26, 2006

• #1

So I'm just paging through the book now.

They deliberately made the demon lords weaker.

Something about making them more viable for 20th level play as opposed to epic play.

They also include demon lords from Dragon, and yes, they appear to be weaker too. Lady of Fungi I think is now CR 21.

And they reuse art like the cover from Dungeon and the old Orcus piece.

On a skim I am not happy.

 

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glass

(he, him)

• May 26, 2006

• #2

JoeGKushner said:

So I'm just paging through the book now.

They deliberately made the demon lords weaker.

Click to expand...

I thought they were going to make them scalable to different CRs. Did they not do that?


glass.

 

T

Tsillanabor

First Post

• May 26, 2006

• #3

Crud-I thought the BoVD versions were too weak already myself.

 

DaveMage

Slumbering in Tsar

• May 26, 2006

• #4

JoeGKushner said:

So I'm just paging through the book now.

They deliberately made the demon lords weaker.

Something about making them more viable for 20th level play as opposed to epic play.

They also include demon lords from Dragon, and yes, they appear to be weaker too. Lady of Fungi I think is now CR 21.

And they reuse art like the cover from Dungeon and the old Orcus piece.

On a skim I am not happy.

Click to expand...

I hope what glass said is true, because wimpy demon lords would be a major disappointment for me.

 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian

• May 26, 2006

• #5

Erik Mona, come give us insight! I don't care that it's 5am in Seattle, we want you now. . .

What if I say "Erik Erik Erik"?

 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian

• May 26, 2006

• #6

Crap. Erik's now standing behind me in his pajamas, and he looks pissed.

 

Einan

First Post

• May 26, 2006

• #7

Just Thank God he wears pajamas...

Einan

 

Piratecat

Sesquipedalian

• May 26, 2006

• #8

If anyone makes a "Rod of Orcus" joke about now, they're so getting banned.

Ahem.

Back on topic.

 

Evilhalfling

Adventurer

• May 26, 2006

• #9

Hurah for more wimpy demon lords!
The highest level I have ever played to, is my current 16th level game.
Epic stats have no real use for me. If I want unkillable Lords, I will just handwave unkillability -
I will prolly use the stated creatures as Avatars - or due to my revised cosmology as lesser lords (which has only 6 true lords that are effectivley evil gods) - handwaving applied.

However...
CR 21 does seem a little low - if 2 Balors can kill it is it really a lord?
Scalable seems like a better option, at least in dungeon it would seem to take up little space.

 

Garnfellow

Explorer

• May 26, 2006

• #10

Depowering the demon lords (especially compared to "official" Dragon versions) is extremely unexpected, but does make a certain amount of sense. People HATED Deities and Demigods is part because it spent so much space on stat blocks that hardly anyone would ever use. Personally, I have no interest in running an epic campaign, and I think that I am part of the vast majority of players here. High level, yes, I'd like to do that, but nothing much above 21st level or so.

So as much as I might enjoy gawking at a CR 36 Orcus, at the end of the day all those epic stats are useless to me.

I would have expected Paizo and WotC to be more in synch on something this. Maybe Erik or James can shed more light on to this.