cthulhu_duck
First Post
In Monster Makeover - The Ogre Mage, Mike Mearls gives the Designer Eye for the Monster Guy makeover to the Ogre Mage:
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Mearls redesigns the Ogre Mage
- Thread starter cthulhu_duck
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Whizbang Dustyboots
Gnometown Hero
Hard to argue with the basic premise: If it's going to remain in the non-OA D&D, it needs focus.
I like the revised critter, but would shed no tears if it was excised in 4E in favor of being a signature monster for OA.
I like the revised critter, but would shed no tears if it was excised in 4E in favor of being a signature monster for OA.
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Drowbane
First Post
Akrasia said:
How would you design the Oni?
As I think the MM Ogremage is PoS, and I don't get to run or play in OA all that much... I replace Ogremages with... Ogre Sorcerers! Ogre (CR 3) + Sorc 5 = CR 8, right?
In an edition where we have the spontaneous caster, we don't need to fall back on oldskool versions of monsters that were handed random spell-like abilities to make them interesting. And if you want to do it OA, use the Wu Jen.
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Kid Charlemagne
I am the Very Model of a Modern Moderator
The biggest issue with the Ogre Mage is that the Cone of Cold has always been way out of line with its other stats. For a party to survive a Cone of Cold, they have to be strong enough that none of the other abilities are of much consequence. THat said, I'd prefer a cold-substituted lightning bolt in order to keep with the original concept a little more. Other wise, not too bad.
Whizbang Dustyboots said:
I absolutely agree with this. Especially now we have the ability to bump a monsters with HD/classes/templates, I think a core rules Ogre Mage is somewhat redundant: as it stands, it's just a pile of abilities that can be awkward to run and annoying to fight. Sticking it in OA is probably a better bet.
Even if I don't always agree with their end decisions, I've really been enjoying the Design & Development articles. I've always been a sucker for reading those kind of "making of" articles, and reading designers talk about what a monster is for and how to change it into something else can make me think a lot more about the mosnter apart from "CR 8" and "not enough hit points to melee" ;-)
Rystil Arden
First Post
Ogre/Sorcerer7 would be CR8 (due to unassociated class level rules).Drowbane said:How would you design the Oni?
As I think the MM Ogremage is PoS, and I don't get to run or play in OA all that much... I replace Ogremages with... Ogre Sorcerers! Ogre (CR 3) + Sorc 5 = CR 8, right?
In an edition where we have the spontaneous caster, we don't need to fall back on oldskool versions of monsters that were handed random spell-like abilities to make them interesting. And if you want to do it OA, use the Wu Jen.
Gold Roger
First Post
I always liked the Ogre Mage for it's diversity, so I'm glad Mearls didn't really get rid of that (charm and sleep where useless anyway).
The reduced CR is a great thing. Sneak attack has great synergy with the rest of the Ogre Mages abilities. That gets my big stamp of aproval. The Cone of Cold was way out of line, lighting bolt is a ok substitute.
My only problem is the limited use of invisibility. Yes a crafty DM can frustrate his players with that. However, there's endless ways a crafty DM can frustrate his players and enough ways to break the invisible Ogre Mage problem. Also, while the Ogre Mage has to be balanced for encounters, D&D Monsters should also be build for campaign gameplay and storyline impact. Unlimited Invisibility has a big impact on those.
The reduced CR is a great thing. Sneak attack has great synergy with the rest of the Ogre Mages abilities. That gets my big stamp of aproval. The Cone of Cold was way out of line, lighting bolt is a ok substitute.
My only problem is the limited use of invisibility. Yes a crafty DM can frustrate his players with that. However, there's endless ways a crafty DM can frustrate his players and enough ways to break the invisible Ogre Mage problem. Also, while the Ogre Mage has to be balanced for encounters, D&D Monsters should also be build for campaign gameplay and storyline impact. Unlimited Invisibility has a big impact on those.
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