Mearls redesigns the Ogre Mage

[philreed]

If you already have 300 monsters, then the next 100 we want to sell to you have to be better, more interesting, and cooler than the ones that came before.

I think this is one of the biggest problems a designer can face. The question that must constantly be answered is:

How do I introduce "better, more interesting, and cooler " monsters* without introducing power creep?

* And feats, spells, classes, magic items, and so on.

 

[Fishbone]

There is a monster glut. I don't think MM4 was well received, I'll pick it up if it goes bargain bin like the Incarnum book but it isn't really needed. I've got srd.plush.org, crystalkeep.com for templates, Magical Society Beast Builder, Fiend Folio, and Penumbra Fantasy Bestiary. I'm pretty much set as far as monsters are concerned. One last thought: Ogre Mage Bard. Could you imagine the look on the players faces when they get dominated by an invisible Ogre Mage casting Invisibility and Haste on himself and his ogre shock troops and Inspiring Courage on 5 or 6 monsters at +4 to attack and damage with his masterwork horn? Would be classic.

 

[shilsen]

I'm really enjoying these articles, and I liked the mechanical changes Mearls made. I always thought the original ogre mage was badly designed. I might try out the new version sometime, to see how it works in play.

 

[el-remmen]

While I am really enjoying these articles as thought exercises, so far I don't like either of the results.

Maybe it is just me, but the way I have run ogre magi I have used their charm ability and invisibility to great effect as long-term villians - I never saw them as something that should stand toe-to-toe with a group of four 8th level characters - but rather present a challenge based on its abilities to said group.

 

[Rodrigo Istalindir]

The thing that dismays me the most is this concept that every single monster has to be stacked against the archetypical party, and that it's fundamentally flawed if somehow thats not the case.

For the MM1, that was for the best. New system, new rules, little third-party support as yet, you needed to make the first source of opponents as broadly applicable as possible.

Six years down the line, though, and that's not the case. Many people want to play games that twiddle with the fundamental assumptions -- lower magic, less reliance on items, gestalt, whatever. And with the proliferation of base classes, you're starting to see more parties outside the ftr/rog/wiz/clr paradigm. An original ogre-mage might not be able to go toe-to-toe with a ftr-bar duo, but what if your group consists of a beguiler, druid, cleric, and duskblade?

Another thing that irks me is the assertion that once you have a critter that fills a particular niche, that creating something else that overlaps is pointless. I don't know about you, but most players have killed legions of orcs, ogres, skeletons and zombies. Something that is mechanically similar (not identical) but very different in flavor is something that a lot of people welcome. It keeps the experienced players a little on their toes, and gives more options for DMs that want to run something other than the Realms or Eberon.

 

[el-remmen]

Thinking it over, I think I would have dropped sleep, made charm person into charm monster, and increased Dex and perhaps natural armor.

The change from cone of cold to lightning bolt is not a bad one

 

[sjmiller]

As with the re-design of the rust monster, I am not sure I like this revised Ogre Mage concept. To me, at least, it has taken the creatively quirky spark of the original concept and made it a duller, more generic creature.

While I am thinking of it, does anyone know where you might find writeups of the AD&D 1e versions of the rust monster and ogre magi online? I would like to see those and adapt them myself.

 

[Cam Banks]

Oh sure, I finish writing an enormous adventure featuring literally dozens of ogre mages with class levels and templates and he writes something inspired like this.

Thanks for nothing, Mearls! You fiend...

Cheers,
Cam

 

[Kid Charlemagne]

I think this is one of the biggest problems a designer can face. The question that must constantly be answered is:

How do I introduce "better, more interesting, and cooler " monsters* without introducing power creep?

* And feats, spells, classes, magic items, and so on.

There are a lot of things like this that can be addressed via the class system. Ogre Mages becoming Ogre... Mages is one example - give an Ogre some charisma and make him a sorceror, or make him a warlock, as has been suggested.

Another one that immediately leaps to mind is the Flind. A Flind is a more powerful gnoll, that uses flindbars - which are essentially nunchakus. So, rather than make him a seperate monster, why not make him a gnoll-monk? That's what I did when I needed one, back in the 3.0 days.

 

[Klaus]

Best. Redesign. Ever.



Okay, maybe not best ever, but really up there. This is actually a monster I want to use (the ogre magi in Speaker in Dreams -- the only one I ever used -- was very annoying).