D&D: Saga Edition?

This thread has generated a lot of talk about how the changes to the Starwars game may or may not impact D&D 4e. Some of us are very happy with the changes, and hope this is the direction 4e takes off.

But 4e is a ways off yet, a SW Saga is coming soon. That means, with a little elbow grease and gray matter, those interested could begin running their D&D games in very similar manner.

So what say you? Anyone interested in a community project to essentially re-write the PHB using some of the new changes introduced in the SW Saga edition?

I say thee yea!

I think we'll need to see more of the new Saga system rules before we can do much, though.

Ashrem Bayle said:

So what say you? Anyone interested in a community project to essentially re-write the PHB using some of the new changes introduced in the SW Saga edition?

Click to expand...

Well, I don't have the Saga rules yet, but one that has stood out in my mind is wondering what the spell system would look like if it used a skill & feat system similar to Star Wars'.

No reason we can't put to work the things we ARE aware of. For instance, classes. Here's what I'm thinking. There are four classes. Each class has a number of "ability trees". These classes are very generic, with the ability trees used to make them a bit more specific. You then layer on feats to make them even more specific. So you have a Mage (a generic user of Arcane magic). You then layer on selections from the Wizard set of class abilities. If he is a specialist, say an evoker, you select feats that grant you evoker specific abilities like re-rolling saves for evocation spells or whatever.

SO, as I see it, we have something like....

Warrior
Weapon Specialist - Choose a weapon. Get significant bonuses with that weapon.
Tactician - You get abilities that focus on disarming, breaking an enemies' weapon, tripping, grappling, setting up and making the most of AoOs, etc.
Martial artist - Monk-like abilities
Commander - Gain abilities that make you an effective leader. Get some diplomacy and maybe something like the auras we've seen from other classes.
Duelist - Light fighter

Rogue
Stealth Specialist - Sneak Attacks, Move Silently bonuses, Hide bonuses, etc.
Jack-of-All-Trades - Gets a LOT of skill points.
Con Artist - Lots of Bluff, Sense Motive, Diplomacy type skills.
Ranger - Woodland based abilities


Mage
Wizard - Wizard based spellcasting.
Sorcerer - Sorcerer based spellcasting.
Warlock - Warlock based spellcasting.
Bard - Bard based abilities.

Priest
Cleric - Clerical abilities.
Druid - Druidic abilties.
Shaman - "primitive" abilities.


So, in short, a character consists of these things:

Race - What the character is.
Class - This defines the broad concept that the character falls into.
Class Ability Tree - This defines what the character can do.
Feats - This defines what the character specializes in.

Thoughts?

In theory, it should be do-able.

Re-Jigger the races to avoid "racial skill bonus" (akin to elves auto-search)

Revise the classes to mesh with "talent trees" Perhaps cutting the classes down (warrior, expert, mage, priest, monk, and bard?)

condense the skill list appropriately, and decide on D&D specific skills (concentration, spellcraft)

Revise D&D appropriate feats.

Static Saves, the opponent rolls to set DC (effectively making saves a Magic Attack Bonus)

Add threshold and triple starting hp. Adjust armor.

Here are the hard parts.

Magical items and stacking bonuses.
"Attack rolls" for other normal saving throws

It will look very different from D&D as we have known.

Frukathka said:

Well, I don't have the Saga rules yet, but one that has stood out in my mind is wondering what the spell system would look like if it used a skill & feat system similar to Star Wars'.

Click to expand...

I've been thinking about spells too. The way I see it, is that it wouldn't change that much. However, there are some innovations in recent products that would be worth re-writing some spells for. For example, in recent books there are multi-school spells, spells that offer special abilities that you can use as long as they are prepared, and spells that can be cast instantly, as a free action.

I say we go back and look at the spell list and see which ones should have those sorts of things added to them.

Also, how do you guys feel about a merged spell list? By that I mean disregarding the Sorcerer/Wizard, Druid, Bard, etc. lists, and simply compile them all into one list and differentiate the spellcasting classes in other ways?

I'm looking at how it was done in Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved.

Remathilis said:

In theory, it should be do-able.

Re-Jigger the races to avoid "racial skill bonus" (akin to elves auto-search)

Click to expand...

I'd like to see something else done with the races. As it stands, the race you have in D&D is important at low levels, but by 20th level, your race is lost in the numbers. I'd like to see races like they are now, but at certain levels, you gain a free race related feat. This way, your race continues to matter as you progress.

Revise the classes to mesh with "talent trees" Perhaps cutting the classes down (warrior, expert, mage, priest, monk, and bard?)

Click to expand...

Yep, but I see no reason why monk and bard shouldn't be talent trees found under warrior and mage(or expert?). Specific types of monks and bards can be defined with feats.

condense the skill list appropriately, and decide on D&D specific skills (concentration, spellcraft)

Revise D&D appropriate feats.

Static Saves, the opponent rolls to set DC (effectively making saves a Magic Attack Bonus)

Add threshold and triple starting hp. Adjust armor.

Click to expand...

All of this should be pretty easy. And for the love of all that is holy, can we get rid of Use Rope?

Here are the hard parts.

Magical items and stacking bonuses.
"Attack rolls" for other normal saving throws

Click to expand...

We'll have to give these some thought.

It will look very different from D&D as we have known.

Click to expand...

Yes it will. And that's what I'm excited about.

Ashrem Bayle said:

I've been thinking about spells too. The way I see it, is that it wouldn't change that much. However, there are some innovations in recent products that would be worth re-writing some spells for. For example, in recent books there are multi-school spells, spells that offer special abilities that you can use as long as they are prepared, and spells that can be cast instantly, as a free action.

Click to expand...

Actually, what I mean is, to get rid of the spells, and make the [spell] system more Force based.

And as far as feats and talents go, I recommend this:

1st level: 1 Talent, 1 Feat
Every Even Level: 1 Feat
Every Odd Level: 1 Talent
1st, 6th, 12th, & 18th: 1 Racial Feat

Yes, that's a lot of feats, but I really like that idea. No matter your class, you get something at each level, and you can really do a lot to customize.

Frukathka said:

Actually, what I mean is, to get rid of the spells, and make the [spell] system more Force based.

Click to expand...

That'd be a HUGE revision. On one hand, I'd prefer to keep things a little closer to the way D&D is now. On the other, Monte Cook wrote an interesting article (and for the life of me I can't find it) about spells as feats. The point being that having certain spells (not all) as feats would make casters more interesting.

For instance, Magic Missle is a great spell for a 1st level Wizard. But what if Magic Missle was a feat that let a wizard cast a 1d3 damage magic missle at will, all day long? It's cool, and it is far from overpowered.

I just don't know. Let's discuss it some more and hopefully get some more people on board who can offer their opinions. Companies have re-written the spell rules so many times, and it has never really been that successful. I think I'd prefer to keep spell levels, simply to keep the scope of the project within reason.

I want to re-write the PHB. This would require re-writing the DMG as well. I'm not saying I'm 100% against it, but it seems to be a bit too much.