immortals handbook

kkoie · Jun 30, 2003

could someone tell me what happened to the Immortals Handbook Upper Krust was working on? Is he still working on it or is it done?

kreynolds · Jun 30, 2003

Click here.

Upper_Krust · Jun 30, 2003

Hi kkoie mate!

I trust you and the family are keeping well?

kkoie said:
could someone tell me what happened to the Immortals Handbook Upper Krust was working on? Is he still working on it or is it done?

The latest word is that the SRD will be updated shortly after the 3.5 Core Rulebooks are released. So expect the Epic Level Handbook and Deities & Demigods to enter the SRD sometime around late July/early August *touch wood*.

After that I should have the first pdf released within a few days with the other three to follow every week or two thereafter. The print version following within a few short months.

I appreciate the interest.

I hope to have a website and some previews ready before the release.

Bjorn Doneerson · Jun 30, 2003

I was waiting for someone to bring this back up. I even considered doing it myself, but I decided I'm too lazy.

I've probably asked this about a billion times before, but will the print version cost a signifigant amount more than the pdf form?

Upper_Krust · Jun 30, 2003

Hey Bjorn mate!

Bjorn Doneerson said:
I was waiting for someone to bring this back up. I even considered doing it myself, but I decided I'm too lazy.

I've probably asked this about a billion times before, but will the print version cost a signifigant amount more than the pdf form?

I could take a guess and say the print version will cost something like 50% more than the combined pdfs...but thats just a guess of course.

Upper_Krust · Jul 7, 2003

Hi all!

Just curious does anyone think there would be much call for an additional Epic/Immortal Monster pdf/supplement (thats in addition to the IH Bestiary section*)?

*Which currently has 64 entries.

The reason I ask is that I I keep coming up with new monster ideas and I ran out of room in the IH months ago. There are also a number of dimensional hierarchies I would like to explore further such as the Qlippoth and Technites (Inevitables); among others.

I suppose I can wait and see how the various IH pdfs sell to gauge things, I'm just a little chagrinned I have to leave out what is currently over 40 monster ideas.

Alzrius · Jul 7, 2003

Upper_Krust said:
Hi all!

Just curious does anyone think there would be much call for an additional Epic/Immortal Monster pdf/supplement (thats in addition to the IH Bestiary section*)?

*Which currently has 64 entries.

The reason I ask is that I I keep coming up with new monster ideas and I ran out of room in the IH months ago. There are also a number of dimensional hierarchies I would like to explore further such as the Qlippoth and Technites (Inevitables); among others.

I suppose I can wait and see how the various IH pdfs sell to gauge things, I'm just a little chagrinned I have to leave out what is currently over 40 monster ideas.

An idea that is certainly intruiging, if nothing else.

The thing to consider is that epic creatures are themselves something of a "niche" product. Most campaigns don't make it to epic level (I've seen some DMs even say that dislike epic material altogether). Given that, most DMs will only need so many epic creatures to begin with...64 seems to fill that need quite nicely, putting in more...well, I don't know...

This isn't to say I'm not interested in such a product...I'd love to see it, especially since your work seems to be top-notch, I'm just trying to objectively ascertain how much of a call for even more epic monsters there'd be.

It really depends on several factors that we don't have yet. Your IH could drum up interest to the point where people would be scrambling over themselves for more epic monsters. Likewise, it also depends on price, the CRs of such monsters (low epic? high epic?), etc.

Upper_Krust · Jul 7, 2003

Hi Alzrius mate!

Alzrius said:
An idea that is certainly intruiging, if nothing else.

Appreciate the interest mate.

Alzrius said:
The thing to consider is that epic creatures are themselves something of a "niche" product.

Agreed.

I anticipate about 20-25% of DMs own the Epic Level Handbook and of those about 20-25% actually play such a campaign.

Alzrius said:
Most campaigns don't make it to epic level (I've seen some DMs even say that dislike epic material altogether).

Thats all fair and well.

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.

Alzrius said:
Given that, most DMs will only need so many epic creatures to begin with...64 seems to fill that need quite nicely, putting in more...well, I don't know...

Well like I said those 64 are in the Immortals Handbook itself (in the bestiary section).

Additional Monsters would require another supplement...think along the lines of a Legions of Hell/Armies of the Abyss sized supplement (maybe a bit bigger than those actually but you get the idea).

Alzrius said:
This isn't to say I'm not interested in such a product...I'd love to see it, especially since your work seems to be top-notch, I'm just trying to objectively ascertain how much of a call for even more epic monsters there'd be.

You could be right, although I would like to think that if the monsters were interesting enough people would buy it.

We will see how the Immortals Handbook Bestiary section is greeted.

Alzrius said:
It really depends on several factors that we don't have yet. Your IH could drum up interest to the point where people would be scrambling over themselves for more epic monsters.

I hope it will do its part.

I imagine we will see a number of epic based products once the SRD is updated (at least I am hoping so because I want to buy some that are not of my own pen).

Alzrius said:
Likewise, it also depends on price, the CRs of such monsters (low epic? high epic?), etc.

There is a good pyramid of Monsters in the IH Bestiary from around CR 30* to around CR 1000+. Obviously there are more monsters of the relatively lower CRs. Though I still have a decent amount of monsters around CR 100+ since the ELH also caters for monsters between about CR 20 - 100.

*For the record my CR 30 is akin to WotCs CR 20...you just divide by 2/3 to get the WotC comparable CR.

I would engineer any future supplement in a similar fashion.

Alzrius · Jul 7, 2003

Upper_Krust said:
Well like I said those 64 are in the Immortals Handbook itself (in the bestiary section).

Additional Monsters would require another supplement...think along the lines of a Legions of Hell/Armies of the Abyss sized supplement (maybe a bit bigger than those actually but you get the idea).

I know, that's why I said 64. What I meant is that if these people buy the IH (which seems like it will be almost a prerequisite since you do rework the wheel a bit...you may get more sales for this possible "additional epic monster" book if you advertize that you don't need the IH to use this...make it "plug and play"), then they'll have 64 epic monsters...which is probably enough. If you have 64 epic monsters to through at your party, are you really needing another forty or so?

Upper_Krust · Jul 7, 2003

Hi Alzrius mate!

Alzrius said:
I know, that's why I said 64. What I meant is that if these people buy the IH (which seems like it will be almost a prerequisite since you do rework the wheel a bit...you may get more sales for this possible "additional epic monster" book if you advertize that you don't need the IH to use this...make it "plug and play"), then they'll have 64 epic monsters...which is probably enough. If you have 64 epic monsters to through at your party, are you really needing another forty or so?

Well you actually don't need the Immortals Handbook to use the monsters in the Bestiary section of the Immortals Handbook. Its standalone (which makes sense since the four pdfs* will be sold seperate)

*That comprise the Immortals Handbook (Apotheosis; Grimoire; Bestiary; Chronicle).

I mean aside from one or two feats you don't really need the Epic Level Handbook to use the Monsters within that book.