D&D General 0 HP Magic Missile = Death?

[Reynard]

All four dice where rolled together. Because that's what simultaneous means. Also, because that's the the way it works on a VTT, unless you insist that they are NOT simultaneous.

The thing that is "bleedingly obvious" here is that RAW does not work in this situation.

FGU still tells me what order they were rolled in because they are separate instances of damage.

Look, if you don't want a solution that's fine. Run things at your table how you want. That's the whole point: it isn't certain and this is the GM's job. Just make a call and stop telling people to do it your way.

 

[the Jester]

The fun is that the Wizard is more likely to have Shield to protect himself, but the BBEG won’t have Shield! So net advantage for the players!

Unless they're a spellcaster. Then thye very well might.

 

[Dausuul]

Unless they're a spellcaster. Then thye very well might.

Yup. BG3 taught me this lesson painfully last night.

(Okay, it wasn't actually a BBEG, but it was an opponent in a BBEG fight. I used a high-level spell slot on magic missile, since I wanted to be sure of taking it down, and my wizard was an evoker with an amulet that gave him an extra missile. My target popped shield and emitted so many zeroes it looked like it was blowing bubbles.)

 

[ezo]

Interestingly, if you apply both of Crawford's rulings here, they solve this problem.

Ruling #1: Each missile counts as a single instance of damage.
Ruling #2: You roll a single die and use that damage for each of the missiles.

Since the damage is the same for each missile, it doesn't matter what order you apply them in.

Which is probably why he rules it that way...

But anyone whose played D&D before 5E would know rolling d4+1 once and just using it for each missile is silly. MM has never worked that way unless it was in 4E? I've never met anyone who did, but I suppose they might be out there somewhere.

You might as well roll a single d6 for fireball and multiply it by 8...

It also sucks if you do and get a 1, which is why rolling for each one is better since you get the curve.

 

[tomBitonti]

Eh, anyone else just think the three failed saves rule is itself the problem? Or, that the saves caused by damage don’t care about the amount of damage? Three one point hits have the same effect as three d8 hits.

I know this gets us out of rules interpretations. Also, it gets away from the “only spells and effects that moody saving throws” idea. But favored design ideas are made to be broken. Bashed, stomped, and ground into dust. When a rule admits to interpretive problems, that’s a sign that the problem is the rule itself.

TomB

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Interestingly, if you apply both of Crawford's rulings here, they solve this problem.

Ruling #1: Each missile counts as a single instance of damage.
Ruling #2: You roll a single die and use that damage for each of the missiles.

Since the damage is the same for each missile, it doesn't matter what order you apply them in.

This does work, but I've never met anyone who likes that "all magic missiles do equal damage" ruling.

Magic Missiles are sequential, not simultaneous, is a much better ruling. This is a prime example of where RAW should be overruled.

NB, both BG3 and Solasta work this way.

 

[Reynard]

Eh, anyone else just think the three failed saves rule is itself the problem? Or, that the saves caused by damage don’t care about the amount of damage? Three one point hits have the same effect as three d8 hits.

I know this gets us out of rules interpretations. Also, it gets away from the “only spells and effects that moody saving throws” idea. But favored design ideas are made to be broken. Bashed, stomped, and ground into dust. When a rule admits to interpretive problems, that’s a sign that the problem is the rule itself.

TomB

I have toyed with the idea of setting the DC of the death save at whatever your "negative" damage total is. So if you had 10 hp and took.15, your death save DC is 5. If someone comes along and stabs your for 8, the DC is now 13. I have never implemented it, but if I did I would probably also say you only ever make 1 death save per round at the end of your turn (in my game incapacitated characters aren't necessarily unconscious and can take minor actions).

 

[M_Natas]

I think se should look at the design intent. Why are magic missiles hitting at the same time?

From a game design viewpoint this weakens magic missile, because you can't switch targets after casting.
With Eldritch Blast you fire your first blast, see the result and then decide who you wanna target next with the second blast.

So the design intent is simple: The hitting at the same time for magic missle is used, so that a player can't switch targets inbetween missiles.

The intent of the "simultaneously " is not to change the rules of how damage from different targets is applied. So when you apply the damage it works just like Eldritch Blast or any other spell that let's you make several attacks with one casting in one round.

 

[Reynard]

With Eldritch Blast you fire your first blast, see the result and then decide who you wanna target next with the second blast.

I don't think that's true. I think you designate your targets upon casting, then make your attack rolls.

 

[M_Natas]

I don't think that's true. I think you designate your targets upon casting, then make your attack rolls.

not according to JC.