D&D General 0 HP Magic Missile = Death?

[Blue]

Yep, but its cheesy. I play it is one damage since the missiles hit the target together.

By that logic, you also nerf magic missile as a Concentration breaker, only forcing a single Concentration check instead of 3 (or more). Is that true?

 

[Blue]

it isn't a certainty, it is an ongoing debate.

However, it is probably unbalanced for MM to do discrete damages because that means a single casting can not only kill a downed creature easily, but it also plays havoc with concentration, forcing multiple checks (trivial checks, but the die has many sides...). It probably makes more sense in that light to treat multiple missiles at one target as a single damage event, but RAW does not make that clear. Hence the ongoing debate part.

It is discrete missiles. That is explicit in the spell. There is no way to say they are not multiple missiles. The fact that it comes from the same source ("one spell") or hits at the same time is absolutely irrelevant. There is no way to read Magic Missile as a single missile, and once it's multiple missiles each with their own damage, there is no intellectually honest way to say it's a single source.

 

[Reynard]

It is discrete missiles. That is explicit in the spell. There is no way to say they are not multiple missiles. The fact that it comes from the same source ("one spell") or hits at the same time is absolutely irrelevant. There is no way to read Magic Missile as a single missile, and once it's multiple missiles each with their own damage, there is no intellectually honest way to say it's a single source.

I don't quite understand the desire to inject the bolded sort of language into what is a basically friendly, if completely unimportant, debate.

 

[Remathilis]

Since you only get to add bonus damage (like from war magic) to one missile, I count all the missiles as one attack

 

[Blue]

I don't quite understand the desire to inject the bolded sort of language into what is a basically friendly, if completely unimportant, debate.

After a dozen responses about it it being inarguable because it was simultanious when there is nothing in the rules about simultanious being the same source of damage, I was a bit ansy about it. But I see that who I responded to - you - are not the person who kept on insisting that, so that was bringing out big guns at the wrong target.

My mistake, sorry about that.

 

[ezo]

By that logic, you also nerf magic missile as a Concentration breaker, only forcing a single Concentration check instead of 3 (or more). Is that true?

Yes. But our rule for Concentration is harder to make. We make the DC 5 + the damage. So, for 10 points of damage, it is DC 15, not DC 10 (raw).

RAW Concentration is pathetic and rarely ever gets broken...

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

In previous editions, it never said "simultaneous", it just says you have to 'designate targets' ahead of time, before you roll damage.

5e doesn't specify that you have to 'designate targets ahead of time. Instead, it uses the term simultaneous because it forces the caster to choose opponents at the time of casting the spell. You can't target one opponent, wait to see if it drops them, then choose a different one, again, wait to see if it drops them and, if not, use your 3rd one against the same opponent. All Missiles hit simultaneously, so you don't have the luxury to wait to see if a single missile drops an opponent.

You have to declare: "I target enemy A with one missile and enemy B with two missiles."

If the first missile against enemy B drops them, the second missile will force them to fail a death save. Getting hit by two missiles simultaneously doesn't change the fact that they now have two holes in their chest. One hole more than they could handle.

Edit: IMO

 

[TheSword]

Unless wie are talking very High AC characters, attacking an unconscious character is easy peasy.
Also using multiattack or extra attack or Eldritch Blast (disputed by some) to attack once, see the result, than attack a second time, see the result, attack a third Time when needed.
So not using Magic Missle not only has drawbacks.

A few things I’d say on this…

• Three attacks don’t come online until 11th level.
• Whether a foe finds a PC is easy to hit is entirely dependent on the foe
• The issue with MM is that it can take a living character on low hp from up and fit to dead in very short order. If it’s upcast.

The concentration things is also a joke. No way a 1st level spell should cause multiple concentration saves thorough a technicality.

 

[Rabulias]

• Three attacks don’t come online until 11th level.

Or at 5th level with dual wielding.
Edited to add: Ah I see now you were talking specifically about eldritch blast.

 

[M_Natas]

A few things I’d say on this…

• Three attacks don’t come online until 11th level.
• Whether a foe finds a PC is easy to hit is entirely dependent on the foe
• The issue with MM is that it can take a living character on low hp from up and fit to dead in very short order. If it’s upcast.

The concentration things is also a joke. No way a 1st level spell should cause multiple concentration saves thorough a technicality.

- You can have three full attacks with a monk at level 2 for 1 KI point.
But we are also talking Monsters here, not PCs, so a DM can build their monsters however they like.
But there seems several CR 5 creatures, that do 3 attacks with their multiattack feature.

• sure, but having advantage (most Multiattacks are melee attacks) helps a lot and a PC that is down is usually not the super high AC one.
• yes, that is the discussion we are having. And I say that is RAW.

Would I as a DM do that to a player character? Probably not, unless they really angered someone with access to magical assassins.

And how would that look like?

So, let's take the CR 6 mage. He casts greater Invisibility on himself, sneaks onto the PCs, drops a cone a of cold on them in a surprise round, a fireball in round 2 and than finishes off downed PCs with upcast magic missiles in round 3. Could TPK a Level 10 Party with that tactic .