1/2 fiend Gestalt

[Angel of Adventure]

Hi everyone,

I'm running gestalt pcs and one wants to become a 1/2 fiend. How would I factor in these levels for him? Would I count it as 2 gestalt levels, or would he need 4 + 4 reg levels?

Thanks,

AoA

 

[Nifft]

Level Adjustment should take up "both sides" of a Gestalt character. So he'd be four levels behind on both sides. The alternative is ... terribly overpowered.

Cheers, -- N

 

[szilard]

Just posted this in another thread: I allow levels of Commoner (and only Commoner) to be taken in Gestalt with LA. I find this keeps PCs from falling too far behind in HD-based things, while not being overpowered like a PC class would be.

 

[s-dub]

Nifft - don't you find that doing so can really restrict the characaters template choices?

I think I would make a judgement call depending on the template:

Something like Half dragon, I'd probably let go at a +2 in gestault. Something like Saint is definately still going to be +2 (or higher)

Two follow ups:

How would you treat "powerful races" Such as the 13th level Avorral Guardian class presented (I think) in BOED.

How would you handle a template with added hit dice, such as werebear?

thanks!

 

[Zurai]

You would read the thread already in the five most recently responded to threads in this very forum about races with racial HD and level adjustments, of course.

 

[Nifft]

Nifft - don't you find that doing so can really restrict the characaters template choices?

Nope. It makes templates a sub-optimal choice, but still valid for some concepts.

The alternative is insanity (as explained already in many similar threads).

The gist of the insanity:

1/ Regular gestalt allows you to generalize better, and doesn't do much to boost a specialty.

2/ Templates, though, allow you to better specialize -- if you can get them "for free" along side the class whose features they're helping to boost.

3/ This is not a balanced trade off because specialization wins D&D.

Seriously, do the math for yourself if you doubt it: stack up nothing but strength boosting templates on one side of an otherwise straight Barbarian, and see if there's anything you could possibly choose with a regular two-class gestalt character to compare in power. (There won't be. But don't take my word for it if you don't want to. Try it for yourself.)

IMHO: nerfing "exotic" PCs a bit is better than giving in to insanity.

Cheers, -- N

 

[Herobizkit]

... or, you could give in to insanity and just hand-wave the LA, making sure that you penalize his future xp accordingly AND factoring in his new ECL when plotting adventures for him and his fellow PCs.

In reality, this isn't such a sting, because Gestalted PC's can actually TAKE ECL's higher than they normally could non-Gestalted.

Nifft and I seem to be on the opposite scale on what is and isn't insanity. If EVERYONE's into insanity, it's not insane, right?

 

[Nifft]

... or, you could give in to insanity and just hand-wave the LA, making sure that you penalize his future xp accordingly AND factoring in his new ECL when plotting adventures for him and his fellow PCs.

But that's not hand-waving. That's sanity. That's applying LA correctly.

Here's what a sane PC looks like IMHO:

Level 1: Wizard 1 // Ranger 1
Level 2: Wizard 2 // Ranger 2
Level 3: Wizard 3 // Ranger 3
+ Half-Fiend (LA +4)
= Wizard 3 // Ranger 3, ECL 7


Here's what insanity looks like:

Level 1: Barbarian 1 // Half-Dragon 1
Level 2: Barbarian 2 // Half-Dragon 2
Level 3: Barbarian 3 // Half-Dragon 3
Level 4: Barbarian 4 // Half-Fiend 1
Level 5: Barbarian 5 // Half-Fiend 2
Level 6: Barbarian 6 // Half-Fiend 3
Level 7: Barbarian 7 // Half-Fiend 4
= Barbarian 7 // Half-Dragon / Half-Fiend, ECL 7 (This is not Sparta.)


See the difference? And see why I think we agree about what's sane?

Cheers, -- N

 

[Herobizkit]

Here's what insanity looks like:

= Barbarian 7 // Half-Dragon / Half-Fiend, ECL 7 (This is not Sparta.)

That IS insane, and I can't think of any reason why anyone would do that on purpose AND be allowed to get away with it. Then again, call it ECL 14 and see how long he lives.

See the difference? And see why I think we agree about what's sane?

Well then, I guess I'm not as deficient as I thought.

By the by, the final party is gonna look like this: (It's essentially a solo campaign that I'm DMing)

* Drow Sorcerer//Favored Soul (the solo PC)
* Gnoll Barbarian//Rogue (NPC)
* Goblin Druid//Warlock (NPC; yeah, I know, go me! I almost want to add a +1 or 2 LA template)
* Duergar Monk//Psion (NPC; he was part of the original team but can no longer play with us as he's all girlfriended up *LOL* so he may or may not show up as another NPC).