15th level NPC vs. 9th level party

Slaved

First Post
I think that my 4 person 6th level party could take her out even if she had time to put up mage armor and a shield spell. We are at about half of the expected gear value for our level as well.

Actually, the party scout alone might be able to take her. Evasion would negate a lot of her damage, he has a wicked speed, and each arrow that hit would take off about a quarter of her maximum life total.

Toss in the rest of the group and she would be lucky to live out 2 rounds.


Since she is able to make up spells maybe you could make up a prestige class as well?

Have her specialize in either evocation or illusion, and then make a prestige class to specialize further and make interesting spells that only people from that prestige class can cast that are a twist on other basic spells. Tough but not terribly damaging.

As an example, mirror image. Normally a pretty tough spell for people anyway but this one is a little different in that anytime one is popped it makes a 5' burst of a random energy type but only for minor damage like d4.

Maybe the prestige class has a special ability that whenever she casts an illusion spell like silent image that looks like a damaging spell (or ghost sound to sound like a damaging spell) whoever is in the effect must make a will save to disbelieve or take d6 damage per level of the spell and each round after that they must make a new save or suffer the effect again but with one less d6. Kindof like a illusory echo.

Your lightning bolt spell would fit in perfectly with this actually! Another special ability could make all or illusions follow you around and perform acts like you do with a save to disbelieve the interaction and taking only half damage plus an extra save to negate the effect instead of taking half damage. With a mirror image up you could look like you are filling huge swaths of land with lightning, make it seem incredibly dangerous, while actually only doing fairly minor damage.

Illusions and minor evocations. It can make for a fun encounter that looks very dangerous but is actually only slightly dangerous. Plus it sounds like a lot of fun.
 

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pawsplay

Hero
I hear a lot of people say that high-level NPCs aren't really as challenging as monsters with equivalent CRs.

You'll hear people say a lot of things. My opinion is that a high level NPC can be either tougher or weaker than a monster of the same CR, but most of the time, it's going to be pretty close.

A lot of the reasons multiclassing as a caster can be weak don't apply to enemy NPCs. They don't need many spells a day. Few party members will have Spell Resistance. Their spell DCs might be a bit low, but conversely, the consequences of losing a save versus an enemy NPC can be quite steep. In this particular case, spellcasting level is a bit low, but it's still higher than the PCs.

This particular NPC seems a little on the weak side. Now, NPCs don't care about XP penalties, but that should be a signal things are a bit strange. The total attack bonus on her strike is the same as her HD, a sure sign of terminal wussiness. Right off the bat, an Ascetic feat would be helpful.

Now let's look at some optimization 101. First of all, why does this NPC have two feats related to touch attacks when their Str is so low and their attacks so weak? Ditch them and just use shocking grasp instead. Use the feats for something else.

There's an attack spell at nearly every level. That's a sorcerer no-no. Further, why take lightning bolt when you can already deal lightning damage from like lightning and shocking grasp? Where are some good defenses, like blur or displacment or other AC-independent defenses?

Why does a sorcerer/cleric/monk need Iron Will?

In fact, what are all those monk levels for with such a low Wisdom?
 

She practically already has the Ascetic Mage feat, just not in name. I made a variant of it for the campaign saga:

Alternate Class Ability – East Wind Training
Level: Sorcerer 1.
Replaces: You do not gain a familiar.
Benefit: You gain East Wind Style as a bonus feat, detailed below, if you fulfill the prerequisite.

East Wind Style [General]
You have learned the techniques of the Monastery of Two Winds. Your vicious, tempestuous fighting style makes you a storm upon your foes.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast shocking grasp spontaneously.
Benefit: You can multiclass freely between sorcerer and monk. If you have monk levels, you can apply your Charisma modifier to your monk’s AC bonus and to the DC of your stunning fist attacks instead of your Wisdom modifier. You cannot cast sorcerer spells with the [earth] descriptor.

If you have the Stunning Fist feat, whenever you make a stunning fist attack, your unarmed strike deals +1d6 points of electricity damage. If you possess the ki strike ability, you can expend a use of stunning fist to cast shocking grasp as a swift action (the shocking grasp occurs instead of the normal stunning effect). This does not count against the normal limit of using stunning fist only once a round, so you could choose to expend two stunning fist uses to cast shocking grasp and deliver a powerful stunning strike infused with electricity.

You may select Auran as a bonus language.
 

Darklone

Registered User
Looks like she's more shugenja than sorcerer... I like shugenjas!

Sooo... what about maxxing dex and cha a bit more? You have one level cleric, thus turning attempts... Divine Might might be a bit too far stretched sadly ;)
 

She's got the default stat array (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8), as do all NPCs in the campaign saga.

I've made some revisions. I think she looks good now.
 

Cheiromancer

Adventurer
I've argued that the relationship between CR and PC class level is CR = level -2. That's with a PC class and standard treasure. If there's no treasure to speak of (5% standard) it's another -2.
 

Lord Zardoz

Explorer
For protection from hold person, there are probably a few things that will work better mechanically. And though I cannot recall specifically right now, isn't there Feat in Complete Divine that will let you take a domain without being a cleric?

A Minor Globe of Invulnerability should be adequate protection from Hold Person, if not hold monster.

A Spell Turning effect would also be fun to work with. And a contingency + Dispel Magic could give you a solid chance at getting away from being held in place.

As a lesser protective measure, you might simply try to prevent a line of effect by fog cloud spells, or Darkness. Or even some wall spells.

Also consider the wonders of the nondescript robe combined with mooks of the same height and build. When combined with vision obscuring spells, you can force some reasonable check to identify the correct target for non AoE spells.

Hold person is a pain in the ass, but it is a perfectly legitimate tactic.

END COMMUNICATION
 

Darklone

Registered User
Lord Zardoz said:
For protection from hold person, there are probably a few things that will work better mechanically. And though I cannot recall specifically right now, isn't there Feat in Complete Divine that will let you take a domain without being a cleric?
Yupp, but not the domain power, only the spells.
 

Veril

Explorer
With the classes you have chosen, you should tweak her equipment a little bit to optimise this character somewhat so that they can be more fun and a little more of a challenge.

Create water as a 1st level clerical spell? I don't think so. Go for something useful instead. Shield of Faith, Bless, Divine Favour are all much better choices.

Give her a some cleric scrolls with some self buffs on - that totally justifies the clerical level then. I assume this monstary has clerical casters who can write some scrolls, assume that they are written at 6th-7th.

Dump the two potions of mage armour. She casts Mage armour at 8am when she gets up and recasts it at 6pm later that day when it runs off (between 4am and 8am there is no spell up). No need to waste a round buffing up when that should be up all day.

Dump the ring of +2AC and Counterspelling - this will pay for everything else I think.

Give her a the following scrolls or Potions instead
Shield of Faith, @ 6th level * 2 (+3 deflection)
Freedom of Movement @ 7th level (70 mins gives her all the protection she needs against hold person, grapple etc).
Owl's Wisdom * 2 @ 3rd level (+2 saves, +2ac)
Bulls Strength *2 @ 3rd level (+2 to hit/damage)

I'd drop Gust of Wind at 2nd level and stick Alter Self in. That's a great 10min/level buff that can give her +5 natural AC.

Drop one of the 4th level spells and go for Stoneskin. Again, it's 10 mins a level. Give her enough cash to cast it a couple of times.

Now you have someone who buffs up to be mean defensivly.
AC 10 +2 Oels wisdom +2 Charisma (east wind style ability) +6 Dex +3 deflection (scroll) +5 natural (alter self) +4 armour (mage armor) +4 Shield (shield). AC37.
 


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